The A to Z on How to Franchise

The A to Z on How to Franchise

Check out the latest episode below. Mr.Biz Radio provides business owners with the knowledge and insights needed to drive their companies forward.

Mr. Biz Radio: The "A to Z" on How to Franchise

Unedited transcription of the show is included below:

Welcome to Mr. Biz radio. This talk for biz owners during the next half hour, Mr. Biz, Ken Wentworth, leading business advisor, and two time bestselling author we'll cover topics. That'll help business owners run their companies more profitably and more efficiently. If you're ready to stop faking the funk and take your business onward and upward, this show is for you. And now here's Mr. Biz Ken Wentworth.


All right. Welcome to another episode of Mr. Biz radio with me, Mr. Biz, Ken Wentworth. And this week, we're going to talk about a topic that we've covered from a different angle. Gosh, it's probably been, I don't know, two years, at least since we cover the topic and we, I think we've only done it once or twice during the five or so years of the show, but we're going to cover it from a different angle this time. And the topic this week is we're going to talk about how to most effectively franchise a business. So a lot of I get the questions pretty often people ask, you know, when is the right time to franchise? How do you know when it's right? What do I need to have set up? You know, all these sorts of things. What should I look for?


Who should I have helped me all those sorts of things. And we've had, I think one or two franchise consultants on in the past, but this week we are honored to not only have a repeat guest, but have someone who's been through the process and is going through the process right now, he is franchised. He started as a successful business and he's franchised it now and he's continuing to grow. And I've been following him on social media since I saw him as a co-star on none of the undercover billionaire. Whereas you guys may recall, Matt Smith has been on the show before we talked about kind of behind the scenes of undercover billionaire has experiences with with Grant Cardone, et cetera. But this time we're going to focus on, you know, what he's been doing with us news mattress. So without further ado, Matt, welcome back to the show.


Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. Yeah. I look at, like I said, this is all a result of following you on social media and seeing all the super cool stuff you got going on with snooze. I'm like, so, you know, guys, I've been following you and I would suggest as well, follow him on social media, Instagram, he shares a ton of stuff and you know, you can see some of the stuff and you know, he's got a dope book, dad, preneur. We talked about that the last time he was on the show, you see some of his family life and you see how he mixes, you know, has a work life balance and things like that. Super inspirational, but a lot of the cool stuff going on, student, Snooze Mattress, I reached out to Matt. I said, man, I gotta have you back on because I've not had someone, an owner who's been through the franchising process before.


So I wanted to have him on and talk about that. So we'll deep dive into that a little bit more as we get into the second third segments. And during the third segment, of course, masks going to give us some tips on some, some things he's learned so far on maybe some things to avoid or make straight, make things to make sure you do during the process of franchising or as you're as you're considering it. So, Matt, why don't you again, we had you on the show before, if you hadn't, I don't, I haven't heard that episode go back in the archives, got to find the Mr. Biz radio page. You can find that there are on our social media and, and listen to that. I encourage you to listen to that episode too, because he shares a lot of cool stuff about undercover billionaire and things that happened, like I said, kind of behind the scenes and, and all that. But talk to us about, you know, sort of, we've heard about your entrepreneurial journey a little bit, but I guess let's, let's talk about from, you know, undercover billionaire forward, because you had 1.2 billion things going on since then.


Yeah. It's a, it's been quite a ride. It's been an amazing journey for sure. Life-Changing but yeah, I mean, I don't know what you want to go into, but snooze is a, a franchise that we're doing right now, obviously wake up as a marketing company that was started on undercover billionaire with Grant Cardone. We are actually going nationwide with that company as well. We're I got half of my team in New Jersey right now and headed to I think Connecticut or something like that, but we got a lot of exciting things we're working on with wake up from that side of it. And then snooze. Yeah, that's, that's been my background even before undercover billionaire. I was working on all of this and you know, I've got 20 years of the mattress experience in the industry. I've owned a one mattress store for about two and a half years and almost three years. And then we've opened two new ones in a different location for about four or five months now. And we're, we're, we're opening stores from San Diego right now to Texas, to Albuquerque to a lot of different places in between. So we we're, we're nurturing somewhere around 50 to a hundred different franchises right now. So it's just a crazy exciting time.


Yeah. Super crazy. So, yeah, I guess I didn't realize, I know that during the show, that was sort of the goal when you talk about with wake-up, at least was the, the longer-term goal was to have wake-ups, you know, around not just Pueblo, but around the country. And so, so that process is, is in the, in mixed as well. Yeah,


Absolutely. That process has been, you know, we've, we've dialed in the system, we've got some amazing structure and amazing team here. You know, we've got 27 people in this building now that literally we from marketing to podcasting, to production, to so many different storytellers, videographers. So yeah, we're, we're flying out to actually some other mattress stores that we're doing some videos on next week. And then we're doing a stucco company in New Jersey right now. So yeah, we're, we're, we're running fast with that soccer, for sure. It's been fun.


And I would imagine, you know, just like you just mentioned, that's where I was going next is there are definitely some synergies between wake up what you do with wake up and what you're doing with snooze, right.


A hundred percent. Yes. I mean, there's no doubt in my mind that if Grant Cardone taught me something, it was that it's not the best product is wins. It's the most well known product that wins. And you know, it's, it's all about marketing, you know, you've gotta be first to market and you've gotta, you've gotta be the most aggressive out there. People you gotta be the most known, I guess, for sure. And that's been our, our, our, our thing since day one is to make sure that we're successful because we get people swinging in the doors and people know who we are just like you on seen us a little bit on Instagram or something, or Facebook or LinkedIn it's we wouldn't be having this conversation set out there. So it's making sure you put yourself out there and be the most known in the market. For sure.


Yeah. And I can't remember how long it's been. We talked about this, I thought about this, another guest we, we got, went down the rabbit hole a little bit of, you know, best known beats, best product. And as the guest was like, wow, I don't know about that. And I said, well, let me ask you this. When you go to McDonald's, if you go to McDonald's you go there because you're like, oh my gosh, they had the best food ever. No, no you don't. I mean, by the way, I do think the fries are the best, but nonetheless it's, you know, they don't have the best hamburgers. I mean, their hamburgers are, you know, average at best and especially compared to even some of the competitors, but they've, they're the best now. And everyone knows the golden arches they're the best. And that's why they do, you know, $23 billion a year of hamburgers, French fries, and chicken nuggets for crying out loud. It's crazy.


Absolutely. Yeah. We, we just talked to Jared from Grant Cardone's office the other day, and he used that same analogy. He's the taco guy. He was like, you know, the local taco shop is probably got the best tasting tacos in the world. Do they ever have a line wrapped around him? No, but talk about does don't they? Yes, because they're the most known, you know, right now there is not as good as the taco shop down the street. They don't get a line wrapped around them. So it's, it's a very true statement for sure.


Yeah. So, I mean, I, I hadn't even thought about that. And I guess shame on me, I hadn't thought about before the show and I was doing some show prep and thinking about, you know, wake up as well as with your, what you're doing with Snooze Mattress. Didn't even think that, you know, the synergies there of having wake up, help snooze, not only your locations, but some of your franchisee locations as well. If they don't have that expertise or know how to do that, you've got to build in team ready to rock and roll.


Yeah. And that's been, the beautiful thing is like, you know, ultimately I bought two shorts in Colorado Springs just to prove concept. They were existing franchises, turn them into our franchise five X, the numbers in once. They're almost 10 X, the numbers in the other store, but truly, but that's all done by marketing. You know, we're swinging traffic, but we've learned how to swing that traffic through YouTube and lean on LinkedIn and Instagram and whatever SEO is. But to make that scale of, well, everything you do in a franchise has to be scalable. So when a guy opens up in Kentucky, we can do the same thing for them. And we already have the assets. We already have the known, we already know how to do that in that area. So definitely there's no doubt you need good marketing. You know, word of mouth is the best way of advertising of course. But that takes time with phones. You can, you, can you have a cheat code with, with the right marketing strategy? Yeah,


Yeah, no doubt. So again, this week, guys, we've been talking with Matt Smith. You've been on the show before we talked about the undercover billionaire when he was on there and partner with Grant Cardone, but we're talking more this week about snooze mattress and how he franchise that you can find out more at, follow the Snooze Mattress on Twitter and Instagram as well. Come back after the break. We'll continue talking with Matt about how he got started with snooze, et cetera. And we'll get the Mr. Biz tip of the week


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All right. Welcome back to the show. It's time for the Mr. Biz tip of the week and this week's tip is success not surrender when the road gets bumpy and I promise it will you have to make a choice. You're going to forge ahead with new determination, or are you going to fold like a cheap suit? Of course not the ladder you're going to forward your head. You're going to look take it as a learning opportunity. There's bumps in the road and use that as energy as we had a Mike Scirocco on C rock a few weeks ago, we talked about using some of that as rocket fuel, put that in your tank, not in your trunk, don't let it drag you down and use it as fuel rocket fuel to help propel you and forge ahead with new determination. That is Mr. Biz tip of the week.


So Matt let's. So I know you'd mentioned, and I, when again, when I was doing some research, I saw that you had worked at a mattress store. So you had experienced, or you mentioned earlier that you had about 20 years of experience, but so, you know, and gosh, as I look back, I'm like you opened your first store in Pueblo around, as I saw him you had a soft opening, I think, on black Friday in 2019, like that was just like last week practically, like, how have you gone from, Hey, we're going to have a soft opening on black Friday, 2019 to literally a couple of years later. It's like, holy crap, we're franchising this bad boy.


Yeah. That's a great question. And that was honestly all part of the master plan. I mean, I think even with buying these two stores and Springs, the one from the west was just approved that I knew what I was doing. You know, I think anybody that's thinking about getting into the franchise world, obviously you've got to have a product that nobody else has, and you'd have to have proof of concept that nobody else has in order to really sell that and to get that out there. So that was, you know, when I opened these stores, I, you know, in Pueblo, I love this community. So you know, I've got a lot of connections around here. So it was a pretty easy opening because I've been in the industry for a long time. But when I got into Colorado Springs, I needed to make sure that, okay, somebody that doesn't know who I am, two stores opening at the same time, I want to make sure that we can do this.


So that ultimately is all a part of the master plan in order to franchise, if anybody's thinking about franchising again, you want to, you want to, it's a system that people are buying into a system they're buying into a store or anything, you know, you have to create the system that's duplicatable and nationwide. And that was what I've been doing for even before I met Grant Cardone the marketing, we already had somewhat of a small marketing company, as you saw on the TV show a little bit, but that was honestly to market the bed in a box that I just launched news flip. And then also to market the franchisees themselves Grant just kind of 10X, our marketing company did a whole lot more things than what we had originally in mind. But yeah, so yeah, in two and a half years, that was always, I want to create entrepreneurs. I want to help grow this system nationwide and to help use you know, other people's backgrounds or connections in their current and their town and stuff like that. So


And I, sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. I just was going to say, I think it's absolutely key. You know, as I'm thinking about as a potential franchisee, let's say I'm looking to buy a franchise and I stumble upon snooze now and I go, ah, let me see, let me see some details. Let me see the history. And I look at it and I know myself, I would look with a discerning eye and say, if you just had a location in Pueblo, I'd be like, well, yeah, well, he's Matt Smith and it's in Pueblo and he's got a name in Pueblo. So, you know, and he's been in the mattress industry in Pueblo for a good while. So of course he can open his own place and make it work, but you know, it doesn't work outside of that. So I think that, you know, there's Colorado Springs locations, as you mentioned, had to be absolutely key in helping make it, make other potential franchisees realize like this, this can work and it will work.


Yeah. That was my goal with opening and they were existing franchises. So, you know, my history, as you probably know, is I was working in the mattress business for a long time and that my previous employer you know, I watched them grow every time they made enough money out of one store, they were able to open another store and then they made it up and opened up another one. So it was a very slow growth. In 30 years, there was a a hundred locations for 20, almost 30 years. And then I also was a part of staff fitness, which you probably saw on the show too. And, you know, a franchise that was a different kind of model. But these guys went up to over 2000 locations at one point. So in my head, I'm like I saw two different models. And if I can combine these models together with a product, that's a very good lucrative industry.


Why couldn't we scale this nationwide? And then you're somewhat using other people's assets and money because you're growing on producers, these guys own their own business. So you don't have to leverage everything to get to that next level, but they're buying into your proven concept of a system. So it's kind of where the perfect storm it came from. But I, yeah, as you said, I wanted to open two spring stores. We've 10X, the volume out of one of them, five, the other one, and we're only four months into it. So there's no doubt that the system works. We've got over a hundred years of, of management in our, in our building right now. I've recruited the best trainer in the industry,general manager, you know, just between the five of us, we've got a hundred years of experience in this building right now. So I got the system developed and now we're ready to run. We've got our first franchise training here. The first weekend of November, we've got over 20 people, that'll be here for franchise training and open their new location. So it's just a, it's a crazy exciting time, but we definitely built the model and the system before we ran, it was kind of the opposite quote me and Grant did with the marketing company. We started running and then we built the system. So I learned from that.


Yeah, I was going to say, you probably learn, you know , you know, everything is a learning experience, right? You, you, you take, you take from the good and the good things, and you leave the bad and learn not to do the bad again, or the, you know, the things that made it more challenging or slow things down. So, let me ask you this and doing some research, how key was it for you in opening even use your first snooze location? Th they have some proprietary system, as I understand it, it might be not using the right terminology, but,uof dream mapping. Is that correct? Yep. And so how key was that? And you decided, I mean, so I guess looking back when you open your first snooze in Pueblo, how key was that to say, I want to open a snooze instead of filling the blank, some other place.


Yeah. it was a hundred percent, you know, if you go into our store, everything that we do is differently from ourselves. People wear pajamas. When they walk in everything we do, we talk sleep, we don't talk about mattresses. I mean, rectangles erecting was, but we are here to sell you a good night's sleep and talk about acid reflux and storing and sleep apnea. And other things, this Mayo clinic partnership was something that when I saw it, I knew it was going to change the industry because it's a confusing industry. You know, you throw a dart and you hope to the mattress works. And if it doesn't work, you go return it and exchange it for another bed. So we took that guessing game out by partnering with that, you know, we custom make our own pillows where, you know, everybody's different from the shoulder to the neck.


So there's a different pillow needed for everybody. So we made sure that that's different or warranties are different. You know, we have proprietary training. We have proprietary mattresses that nobody else carries, but the best warranties in the industry. So I knew going into this, there's some big players, mattress firm is a giant player. They got 2,700 locations. And then there's some other really big players out there. So we knew that we had to be different at anybody. You know, anytime you jump into a giant industry, you gotta make yourself unique out there. And that was ultimately what our plan was going into this and that we can still, every everything we do is not necessarily about the mattress industry. We look at Tesla and how they do some of the stuff they do. We look at so many successful brands out there. And how, how can we bring that into the mattress industry and how can we change the game instead of just duplicate the same thing over and over again?


Yeah. And I think that's key. I mean, look, here's the, here's the reality of it. And I know I'm preaching to the choir with you now, but even specifically to listeners it, wasn't you guys out there who cheap out on mattresses, and I'm not suggesting you go out and spend, you know, way beyond your means or anything like that. But think about it, generally speaking, you spend about a third of life in bed. And at that third is crappy sleep. It impacts the other two-thirds of your life. You wake up, even if you spend eight hours, quote, unquote, sleeping, but you only get five hours of quality sleep and you wake up the next day, you're grouchy. You know, maybe you're a little graphs to your kids, your spouse, whatever it might be, your business partners, your customers. I mean, it just, the downstream impacts on your entire life. If you don't get good sleep is just huge.


That was perfect. I'm gonna use that in a commercial. That was great. That was well said it better, but that's absolutely. That's what we talk about all the time. It's about sleep. It's not about a mattress. And the uniqueness is of, of everybody needing something different and how you can change that. And, you know, we've got financing where you can find that it's up to five or six years to make that $10,000 potential purchase, you know, a couple hundred bucks a month or a hundred bucks a month, you know? So it makes it affordable. If you want it to go that high. Not that you have to go that high, like you said, but if you want it to, we make it a lot more, a lot easier on the pocket folks. But yeah, I sleep is unbelievably important to everything we do every single day. It's one of those you gotta, you gotta drink, you gotta eat, you gotta sleep. You gotta be there. Those are the only requirements we have and that's one of them. So, yeah.


Yep. All right, we'll come back after the break guys, we're going to get some tips from Matt on how to effectively franchise a business.


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All right. Welcome back to the show. And I do want to mention again, you can find out more information at, follow them on Twitter on Instagram, same thing. And I want to mention, you know, I brought it up in the last segment. I don't want you to think that I'm being the Pfarius or trying to be funny, or I'm just pumping up mattress sales, you know, for, for Matt's benefit or thing like that. I, I practice what I preach, I should say. So I was a competitive athlete many, many years ago, not that many years ago, but this story goes back a long time. I was in my corporate career before I had sort of my big quote, unquote, my big break in my corporate career. I wasn't making a lot of money, but I was a competitive athlete. And I recognized how important my sleep was.


Not just, I mean, for the average Joe it's important, but especially for a competitive athlete, I needed to make sure that the sleep I had was quality. And I went out and this was, I'm trying to think what year this was. Nevermind. I probably shouldn't say that I don't date even more than my gray hair, but nonetheless again, I wasn't making enough money to spend what I spent on a mattress, excuse me. And I didn't finance it. I figured it out because I knew how important it was. So I bought this maps and I remember all my buddies and my buddies are sleeping on, you know, a hundred dollar mattresses. They get at some local crap place or whatever. And they're like, oh my gosh, lit an idiot. You're telling me your mattresses, you know, 50 times better than mine. I'm like, come lay on this bad boy.


Okay. Lay on it. You know, and then they'd tell me, are you sleep on it for a night? And tell me the difference between yours and mine. I mean, come on. So I absolutely practice what I preach. It's super, super important. And I may have to figure out how to get open a snooze somewhere around me, Matt, because we're the Wentworth SERE, the biz family. We're we're gonna be in the market for a new mattress for, for the wife and I here probably within the next 12 months, we already started talking about it. And that's, you know, I told her, I said, you know, when you come with a budget, cause I'm willing to spend some cash to make sure, you know, it's just too, too important. So I wanted to mention,


Yeah, I love, and I appreciate that. And we just launched an online which is a first of its kind, but it's a foreign one mattress it's from on one side soft on the other side, the covers cold on one side, the covers warm on the other side. So you can rotate the cover or the mattress for the perfect sleep. So I invented that about a year and a half ago, but we just started to launch that night, delivers direct to consumer directly to your front door prices anywhere from 15 to 1800 bucks. And it's a, it's, it's, it's a 122 year warranty mattress it's designed with lumbar support. I mean, there's a lot of cool uniqueness's to it, but we just launched that as well, too. So that'll shift any, any listener out there, can't get a dream app, but they want a bed that's universal. If they don't like it, they can flip it a battle ship right now as soon as


Nice. Nice. Well, Hey, after you go check it out for sure. So Matt let's, let's, let's talk a little bit. So you've gone through this process, the, the bumps, the bruises the successes of the high five so far. Talk to us about, you know, some of the things you learned going through franchising, snooze


So much you know, I would definitely say the regulations, you know, I, you know, if you know me, like I am a very fly by the seat of my pants, I'm running all the time, but that's not how this business works. When you get into franchising, everything is regulated. I mean, to the point that I had to create a whole nother FTD just to get into California the FDD itself took me probably six, six months of meeting with legal counsel pretty much twice a week for hours and hours on end to write the FTD, because it's your, it's your, it's your, it's your Bible, you know, after you create that, that is what protects you and protects your franchisees for life. So there's a lot that goes into that from, you know, the training like we have next month is going to be 50 hours of training, 10 hour days that we're, we're, we're required to show you plus the training before you can get here.


But, you know, the regulations is very heavy because they want the success and every state is completely different. But I would say, you know, if you have a model and it's successful, it is a, a beautiful way of, of running with your model nationwide and helping other people become entrepreneurs, you know, but we we've had to change our mindset from, it's not about our problem in Colorado Springs store, but every asset that we create, if it's a Saturday morning meeting, if it's a overcoming objections, whatever it is, we're creating assets for a nationwide company now. So we're creating this stuff for the franchisees to turn the key. When they buy into a franchise, they don't want to have to go, oh, what am I supposed to do about this? They want to know that everything's figured out for them and they want to, they want to have the McDonald's approach.


They want to walk in. It looks the same, feels the same. We say the same things. So you have to create that. And it's a lot of leg work and it's, it's, it's never perfect. You know, we're learning every single day more we're continuing to evolve. And we know we have the best system in the industry. No doubt in my mind, compared to any other mattress franchise out there. But we're still, we're still perfecting the art. You know, our stores are getting better looking every day, where we're meeting with different vendors on different looks and different fields, but ultimately everything you do has to be scalable from a California store to a Texas store, to a Republic store, everything from what they say to, to how they ring up a sale to their financing, it all has to be perfected and it has to be regulated.


No, well, we kind of do it this way. No, it has to be done this way and only this way. And you have to create that commitment from yourself, your team, and for, you know, when you sell that franchise. Cause again, I mean, people don't mind you a franchise, they could open a mass store or Snooze mattress. My commitment is when you open a snooze mattress, we're going to save you money. We're going to save you 20 years of falling on yourself and learning because you're buying into the cheat code. We have a cheat code for you to be successful. And you're buying into a proven concept that works and a proven team that is here to back you up from the marketing to the training, to the ongoing cost of doing business to everything you need. You've got somebody that's a phone, a friend away. So you're buying a cheat code. You just have to create that cheat code and make sure that it's, it's, it's the best out there. So, yeah,


And I think that's key. So I, you know, I've talked about this before. I think I talked about on the show maybe once or twice, but I know, definitely talked about it with some of my clients as a fractional CFO and working with them when they are looking to expand open other locations, maybe even get into franchising. It's like one of the things you, you mentioned the time you spent on the FDD and I think that's so I'm sure it was a pain in the neck and it was pretty arduous while you're going through it, but I'm sure you, I'm sure you knew then, but you also are seeing now the fruits of your labor and that it makes this part of the process so much easier to spend that time because you're building that foundation. You know, the, the silly example I always give is, you know, back in the days when people use copy machines you know, you make a copy of a, an original, but the copy is pretty good, but it's not as good.


And then you make a copy of the copy and you compare it to the original. Now it's a little bit worse, right? That's essentially what you can do with franchising. If the original is not good enough. So if you have a, on a scale of one to 10, if your original location of a franchise is a six, and then you start to copy of six, you know, you get, you get 10 stores in and it's a crappy store because you're making a copy of the copy of the copy of the copy kind of thing, you know? So you gotta make sure so that I I'm glad you mentioned that that time on the FTD is ensuring that things are set up. So when you're making that copy, it's, it's going to be rock solid.


Yeah. That's well said. And that's, I mean, I met with two franchisees this morning before this call and you know, you have to be able to answer every legal question that's on there and not anybody can just answer those questions. Only two people on the FTD. So there's so many regulations on that, but you're right. That's the most important thing you can do at your Bible. And then beyond that, like finding the right people, you know, one thing I was taught early on on this is don't, we don't sell franchises. I award franchises, you have to fit my culture. You have to fit this community. You have to be a little bit weird. You have to have, you know, you just have to fit who we are. And I've had to refuse to people at this point because they just didn't fit our culture. They just, they had money, but they weren't part of the culture.


So it has to be a culture ad. It has to be somebody that's going to help your business grow. And that makes sense for you because you guys are in, you're in bed together for 10 plus years, you know, so we'll have to, you have to fit. So be very, very picky. Don't go after the easy buck, make sure that you're definitely finding the right people to scale you, especially at the beginning, those first 20 franchises are gonna make everything you do, you know? So you're going to find the right people and we've been blessed to have some amazing franchisees right now that they just fit perfectly in our culture. At least the ones we've accepted, but award franchises don't sell franchises. Definitely. That's a big part.


I love how you said that, Matt and it's so, so critical because that those new franchisees are not only representing you as the ultimate owner of the snooze mattress, but they're representing every other franchisee around the country, right? Because if someone has a bad experience and a New Jersey snooze mattress, they're going to assume that all Snooze mattresses that way. So I own, I love how you said that. And I think that's a critical thing. And it's one of the things that business owners sometimes get, it gets, you know, you get enamored with the top line and you're chasing the money and chasing the revenue that, that never works long-term so,ubut again, this week, guys, we've been, we've had Matt Smith on repeat guests,uformer CoStar of undercover billionaire partner with Grant Cardone. He's opened a Snooze mattress. You can find out more, follow them on Twitter, on Instagram. Find out about how , especially if you're interested in franchising, you talk about that, you know that the model's good maps. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your insights. It's


Always a pleasure. Thanks for all you do and continue to do my man.


Yeah, I really appreciate it, Matt. Well, thanks for listening guys. Appreciate it. Have a great week. And don't forget as always cash flow is king.


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