Limiting Absentee-ism & Presentee-ism

Limiting Absentee-ism & Presentee-ism

Check out the latest episode below. Mr.Biz Radio provides business owners with the knowledge and insights needed to drive their companies forward.

Mr. Biz Radio: Limiting Absentee-ism & Presentee-ism

Unedited transcription of the show is included below:

Welcome to Mr. Biz radio Biz Talk for biz owners during the next half hour, Mr. Biz, Ken Wentworth, a leading business advisor, and two time bestselling author we'll cover topics. That'll help business owners run their companies more profitably and more efficiently. If you're ready to stop faking the funk and take your business onward and upward. This show is for you. And now here's Mr. Biz, Ken Wentworth. All right, welcome to another episode of Mr. Biz radio with me, Mr. Biz, Ken Wentworth.

In this week, we are going to delve into a topic. First of all, we're going to learn some new new terminology. We're going to talk about how we can limit in our businesses, absenteeism and presenteeism. Now, hopefully you right now, you're the listeners. You guys are out there thinking to yourself what in the heck is absenteeism and presenteeism. And guess what? We're going to tell you what that is. And we're going to you help you learn how to limit that in your business because our guest this week is an absolute expert in this. So get this guys. You want to talk about it? Cannot wait to hear this journey. She was an MIT or MIT engineer, easy for me to say she worked in Silicon Valley for several years, and now she's the founder of the first ever fully accredited integrative and natural pathic, natural pathic medicine residents program in the state of California. So without further ado, welcome to the show Dr. Beverly Yates.

Hi, Ken, how are you? I'm delighted to be here. Thank you for asking me to be on your show. Can't wait to talk to you and hopefully there's some information that your audience can use in their businesses.

Yeah, absolutely. So look, as I mentioned, you just your intro, the bio you have I can not wait to hear this. So tell us, please tell us about your journey, Dr. Gates,

Not your typical journey. Right? So I started out being a person who was a huge fan of science and technology and all those kinds of things. And I had a ham radio background back in the day as a girl, and I always loved the Nova show on PBS. And so I went to MIT, got a degree, a bachelor of science in electrical engineering went to work in Silicon Valley, very, you know, kind of a reasonable trajectory, right? And no big surprises there. And as I've worked in those jobs, I just realized it was a mismatch for me. In terms of people contact, it was just so such a solo thing. And there wasn't a lot of interacting. So even though my work was as a systems engineer, I actually didn't talk to other people very much that wasn't something that I knew was an issue necessarily.

So it was just, it was a misfit for me in terms of my personality, but I still have that intellectual drive. Right. So in that journey I had gotten ill moving from Silicon Valley to the Pacific Northwest. The Silicon forest did it sometime, no, the Silicon rain forest. And I was hugely helped by an anchor Patrick. It really helped me reclaim my energy. So I found in my early to mid twenties, I've gotten so fatigue, et cetera. And I'm quite sensitive. It turns out the mold. I didn't know that. So having found that out because of their, it rains so much, there's mold even on the concrete, right? Like that's an unusual environment to be in and natural medicine. Naturopathic medicine specifically is what helped me get my health back and get my natural energy and joy restored. So I was intrigued and being a problem solver at heart. My part of my entrepreneurial journey, that story is that I went from problem-solving was things as a systems engineer to problem solving with people often who have complex chronic health problems as a doctor of naturopathic medicine. And it's been a very fulfilling journey. So I'm still that same person who, the analytical skills they're just applied in a different way.

Interesting, interesting. So once you figured that, all that out and determine sort of what some of your problems were, I assume at that point. So you went back to school.

Yes. Yes. I went to the national college of natural medicine at the time. It was called the national college of naturopathic medicine in Portland, Oregon. It's now been renamed and it's the larger university, it's the national university of natural medicine in Portland, Oregon. And that's where I first got my degree and then went on to get my license in the state of Oregon. And now in the state of California as a naturopathic physician. So, you know, that's, that's quite a journey you put in all the work you would expect, like the training of medical doctors go through anatomy, pathology, physiology, biochemistry, pharmacology, you know, all the ologies plus you'll learn a lot, much more training than medical doctors have and things like clinical nutrition and the interaction between drugs and supplements and nutrients herbs on their own as clinical medicine and medicine traditions from around the world, including Chinese medicine and other disciplines, so that you can really give people that comprehensive thinking and support. And I think where we shine is in the role of primary care for chronic illnesses, the stuff that makes you miserable. That's really where I think naturopathic medicine has particular playing to stay, to help people to reclaim their health and to keep it that way.

Yeah. So let me ask you this, when you were, let's say 15, having those conversations with, you know, what do you want to be when you grow up? Did you ever think in a million years that you would end up being a doctor?

No, that's such a great question that you're asking me that again. And you're probably the first person who asked me this. I've done a lot of media and interviews so good for you. My, my friend, no, I did not think I would be a doctor. You know, why the doctors that I saw where I grew up, they were miserable. They were really unhappy people and they were also not, they didn't appear to have healthy habits. Like I remember one doctor, great guy. He cared deeply about the community. He was a chain smoker. And I remember the one with my mom see him for her appointments. I was young enough, you know, I think with my mom, it wouldn't have been at home by myself or my grandparents and know he was just puffing away. But unfortunately he died in his clinic her heart attack. It just, wasn't a good example, you know, so I was not attracted to what I seen of Madison growing up. It was like, Oh dear God. No, no, thank you. This is not for me.

Well, you know, what's interesting to me though, is that you just like, you know, we have all these guests on the show and we've done, you know, hundreds of shows. Now you always hear, you know, even though it's someone who's listening and first tuning in and hearing that we have a doctor on the show, they're probably thinking now what what's it have to do with business? The way I look at this, your journey is it's very entrepreneurial in that entrepreneurs in my mind, almost by definition, find solutions to problems. You bet you see something that's, you know, that's needed and necessary and you create a business out of it or a service or a product or whatever it might be. And in my mind, that's, you know, being an entrepreneur and it's true most truest form, and you've definitely done that. You know, you, you figured that out for your own soul yourself personally, and saw that there was an opportunity there to be able to help people. I love it.

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. It's very much entrepreneurial. It takes some courage to step out as you well know, as an entrepreneur and create something that hasn't already existed to answer or address an actual current need or desire a want, most importantly, that people are resonant with that they feel like they need help with, and that they will actually commit their time, money and good efforts toward. That's absolutely true.

Yeah. No, definitely. Definitely. Well, we've only got about a little over a minute here and I know I want to get into I don't want to dive into it yet, but I want to talk to the next segment about you, you helping us and telling us about absenteeism and presenteeism and you know, the cost associated with that because I think the listeners are going to be it's profound. You you'll be blown away guys. And then of course in the third segment, we're going to get tips from Dr. Gates and she's going to help us how we can limit absenteeism and presenteeism in our businesses. And when you hear the definition and the cost associated with this, again, you're going to be blown away. So definitely make sure you stay tuned for that. But I guess you know, in the, in these last several seconds before we we end the segment here, what is sort of one thing that you have one less than hundred dollar purchase that you have, Dr. Gates, you just can't live without

In terms of absenteeism or presence?

No, no, just, just, this is a general question. Just something that you've bought that you have in your business, your personal life, less than a hundred bucks. And you're just like, Oh my gosh, this is the best thing ever. I can't live without it.

Yeah, man, that is a great question. You know, it's going to be really simple. I have a heavy duty water flask. That thing is indestructible and hydration is so important. You know, I'm a person who's not naturally thirsty. And for me, I just fill it up every night for my Workday starts that way. That, that morning you just grab it. You don't even now, if I'm working from home, I still grab it. So I don't forget to stay hydrated for me. I think that one, it pops like 19 bucks, you know, it's it's every penny. Yeah.

Awesome. Awesome. All right. We'll come back after the break. While we're talking to them,

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Thank you for listening to Mr. Biz radio. Did you know our show airs seven days a week for more than 30 hours. Now, if you are in the B2B space and we'd like to reach the thousands of business owners every week, including our more than 250,000 social media followers are thousands of daily internet radio listeners, our email list fans and Mr. Biz solutions members email us at info at to become a sponsor, tap into Mr. Biz nation to help grow your business. Check out both of Mr. Biz's national bestselling books, pathway to profits and how to be a cashflow pro on Amazon. Now, once again, here's Mr. Biz. All right. Welcome back to the show and it's time for the Mr. Biz tip of the week. And this week's tip love. This one. It is take the risk business is like the UFC.

No one goes undefeated, but you're never going to know if you don't take a shot, you got to shoot your shot. You're never gonna know otherwise. Very, very important. There's too many people that kind of talk the talk, right? They they're, they're standing on the porch and they want to be a superstar, but they're afraid to get off the porch. And you're never going to have, have an opportunity to be a superstar, be successful in your business, et cetera. If you don't get off the porch, get off the couch, take the risk dive in, take a calculated risk. Of course. But you gotta take the risk. There's always risk involved in starting a business, things like that, especially with you know, we've talked with Dr. Yates, you know, the, the risks that, that, that you took, Dr. Hates moving from, you know, your career in engineering, into, you know, sort of the medicine field.

I mean, I can't even imagine. I mean, you took a big risk there. Yeah, I sure did. It was a big risk. And at the time I think I was young enough to not really understand risk, to be completely honest, you know? Okay. And I did not know that. Yeah. Well that was it. It actually worked in your favor, your, your your naivety worked in your favor in this case. You lucky. I got lucky. It does not always work out that, that way. We all know that as business people, right. The time to get bit. Yeah, yeah, no doubt. All right. So let's get into like, I'm sure everyone and I already, I know some of this, right. Cause obviously don't show prepping or anything, but talk to us a little bit about, first of all, let's dive into absenteeism. What is absenteeism? Sure. So absenteeism is the reality that many businesses

Face and the people who are employees certainly are part of this, right? For all the people, all the human lives we touch as employers. And that is absenteeism is what happens when someone is absent from work constantly where they're out and they're not able to do their job well. And, and they're compromised. So compromising their performance that they have to miss work and keep missing work. And if they are a key member of your team, you know, sometimes they're not going to be easy to replace. And so that means, you know, that they're just out for an extended period of time and it doesn't have to be all at once. Like it might not be a three week or a four week, five week thing. It could be three days here, four days there and it just keeps, keeps happening.

Yeah. And so I think everyone can relate to that. And I think, you know, one of the keys that I take out of that is the consistency, right? Who's not healthy. And as you mentioned, it doesn't have to be that they're out for a month at a time. It's just, it could be periodically. And we probably, I mean, I know in my corporate career, I've worked with a few folks that were stricken with this type of this type of problem. And it's like, Oh my gosh, every time you turn around. And even when I'm on my teams, having some folks who suffered from some of this, and it was, as you mentioned, it's very difficult to try to plan as a, as a leader in the group for those people, because you just know they're going to be out. And so what's plan B. Who's going to step in now who steps in for that person who stepped in for person a, you know, it just becomes a really, really a massive impact on productivity.

You're right. It's, it's like this domino effect. And I want to make a distinction here for absenteeism. It's the practice of regularly staying away from work or can, you can be at school place without a good reason. These are not people who necessarily actually ill. So this really can be something where, you know how people give each other. The side-eye when they know someone's not pulling their weight on the team, or they have this pattern of behavior where they're dismissing work, because they're missing work. There's actually nothing wrong with them. It's one thing. If somebody has a legitimate reason to miss work, then if they are ill or there to care for someone else, that's real. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the people who are just taking advantage,

Right? Yeah. And I'll tell ya from people that I've mentored, even during my corporate career. And even now, you know, I tell people if you wake up and, and if, if, if you're in this position, you'll relate to this. If you wake up in the morning, it doesn't have to be Monday morning any morning. And you're already trying to make an excuse to not go to work. Meaning that you go, Oh, Oh man, my, Oh man, my throat's a little scratchy. Ha I should, I probably shouldn't risk giving it to everyone else. I, I probably should just stay home today. If I rest for a day, then I'll probably, you know, I'll get over it. I'll be okay if you're in that mode. And you're already, you, you think about that. And you, if you're being honest with yourself, it's time for a new job. A new career is time to make a change because your, the apathy is killing you. And, and in turn, you're killing your, your team. Yeah.

You're taking out people, yourself. Number one, right. If that's the game you're playing and then you're destroying everyone else's contributions as well. So it definitely has this, you know, multiplying domino effect, no question.

And what are, what are the, I know you've got some statistics around this. What are the costs annually of absenteeism?

Oh my gosh, absenteeism is something else. For small business, this is actually a big deal. So some of the things we know, we look at a big number. It's like $226 billion a year. They have to be billion dollars a year for small business. That's a huge number that you lose from this unfortunate game of absenteeism, right? So that's about $1,700 per employee. That's a number and it can be as much as 2,600, $2,700 for people who are salaried employees, you know? And so there's different ways. This is measured. But again, business people, you know, if you just Google this sort of thing, you will see it. And it's quite quite real. When I talk to companies of different sizes whether they are large corporations, medium or smaller, if I'm a speaker, or if I'm talking to them about healthcare, things, et cetera.

This comes up all the time about what can we do to improve this? And these are the numbers and it's just a real drag on performance. It also means sometimes it puts people's jobs at risk because it's a hidden cost of payroll. Sure. You can't grow your team. If you've got 10% of the team, you know, not showing up effectively, like they were, they're just not contributing. And you know, this, this has a an effect where teams don't grow and businesses wind up sometimes having to lay others off who are great performers because other people are our dog, you know, it's not good.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's shift gears a little bit. Talk about presenteeism. What, what is, what, what is that Dr. Gates? Yeah.

So presenteeism is the practice or the habit of coming to work. Despite knowing you are compromised and not taking the time off you take off the heel. So people will come knowing like they, that they've got a cold or flu and they're hacking and coughing, and everybody else has gotten sick. And now in the face of this pandemic, that's really a fine point, but those are still in a common shared airspace, kind of a workplace and not working from home. Sometimes people come who know they're injured and then they might end up getting further injured at work because this doesn't make any sense for them to be there. If they know they're feeling really depressed and anxious, and they're just, they're physically present their body is there, but their mind they're, they're not really able to farm it and do their work. And so for presenteeism, that's another aspect of this, where they're there and they aren't able to work. And everyone around them knows they aren't able to work. They're not fully functioning and it really does harm their individual productivity. If they're part of the team, the team is missing that teammate. It makes a difference.

Yeah, no, absolutely. And so I know again, we've got just about a minute left here, but what are some of the, gosh, I hate to even ask this, cause this is crazy. What are some of the numbers of behind the cost of presenteeism?

Well, the numbers, the research that's been done and there's been deep research done on this has been from presenteeism. It costs about 151, five, zero billion, B billion dollars per year for businesses. That is a big, big number. Yeah. So interesting. Huh? That's a lot of money.

Yeah. Well look, you know, me as a numbers nerd, I look at it and I, I look at the, those two numbers between absenteeism and presenteeism and think about on a per employee basis for a small business, that's got 10, 20, 30, maybe 50 employees, you know, and they have thin profit margins. And all of a sudden, now that's added in that. Gosh, guys, think about this. If we could limit that number, right. It might be nearly impossible to completely eliminate it. But if we can limit that number, think about the impact that would have on your profitability because your productivity is going to go up. So we're going to, we're going to Dr. X is going to help us with that during the next segment. And she's gonna walk us through some of that stuff I should mention before we hit the break. You want to find out more about what Dr. Gates is doing. He can go through, or follow her on social media, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram. She has a YouTube channel as well. So check that out and we'll see you after the break.

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Sweet with Dr. Beverly Yates of You can check out more of what she's doing there, and we're talking about, hopefully you guys are picked yourselves off, off the floor, hearing those numbers that it's costing each of our businesses for absenteeism and presenteeism. So with all that said, you got to help us out, doc, how can we, how can we limit this? How can we limit these and, and the impacts they're having on our business?

Yeah, this is a great question. Can, so we're going to keep this really practical and actionable. There's some pretty simple things you can do. One is if your business has access to any group trainings or to programs, and sometimes these are available through health plans as well. I'm finding there's all kinds of ways to motivate people, to do healthy things and to teach them how to do this throughout their day. So let's start with simple things like encouraging healthy nutrition, whether people are working at home, or if they're in a shared workplace. I know in this moment with the pandemic that the people's work situations are really different. So I want to be able to speak to things, to get them to do regardless of location. So number one is emphasize healthy nutrition and to encourage people to do simple things like eat leafy greens with every meal, this wouldn't even include breakfast.

And I know that sounds strange and new breakfast great, but the leafy greens in and punched in dinner, those leafy greens will do a few things and that will help to keep them energized throughout the day. It provides hydration, lots of nutrients and fiber that'll help with blood sugar. It's going to help with cholesterol to help with all kinds of things, help with your midline. To some of us in the midst of this pandemic are finding we're not as physically active and we might have a growing waistline. So this is a simple way to help break that waistline and keep yourself healthy.

I like that one. I'm sure a lot of people can relate to that. A lot of people can relate to that for sure. Yeah.

Get a boxer, pre ranch salad greens. It could not be simpler these days. I'm telling you it's like four or five bucks anywhere in the U S you can absolutely do this book. They'll get those greens, eat them. Yes. Yes, definitely. Another option would be to have a workstation solution that helps promote health, right? It could be standing desk. It could be walking treadmills. Those are help, helpful, helpful. And they have a small footprint. They do not take up a lot of space at all. They're safe to use, and it's easy to just be walking. Like you're doing meetings, things like that. Instead of being seated, you'd be on your walking treadmill. Like for myself, I'm usually on it. If I'm on a call, I'm not doing it now because I don't want to mess up our audio quality. So I'm just trying to tell you, this is what I do for myself. And I recommend to my own patients. And then I work with businesses. Same thing, make it easy for people to make the healthy choice. I'll make it hard.

And I'll tell you, doc, I'm, I'm standing while we're recording this. So that's something that, yeah, something I do pretty regularly as well. I see, you know, you get to just officially, from my time in a corporate world, you get so sedentary sitting in your butt, in a chair, in front of a computer screen or the desk. And gosh, it just, for me, it's, it sounds almost counter intuitive, but for me, when I'm up and moving, I have more energy. You would think, Oh, spending energy. You're not gonna have as much know it. Some, I can't explain it, but it, it, it keeps you energized. It keeps me energized. At least I should say, I don't know if it just keeps my energy levels up and keeps me from being sort of apathetic or, you know, kind of slipping into that sedentary mindset or what, I don't know what it is, but definitely helps

Ken you're spot on. You're so smart. You said the magic words, right? It keeps you energetic. You're right. Research has shown, sitting close down. Our metabolism standing, keeps it moving. He said, active keeps it, burning those calories for you. It's a free, simple step. So if you can stand folks, if you aren't forced to sit, please do it is a simple gains you can make it's accessible to most of us. And I'd say, if it's not going to hurt you, you know, physically, if you aren't in some kind of pain with your knees, pips, by all means, stand as much as you can throughout your day. Just take a few steps around your office, do something with the emotion at that fitting stuff. You know, they all sitting the new smoking. It's a problem

For sure. Yeah, no, I could easily see that for sure. Especially as you mentioned with the pandemic, I mean, when people were sort of a lot of times working from home, and I think you fall into this, you could easily fall into some bad habits because maybe if you work in an office environment, usually you've got people around you. Maybe you're being more social you're up walking around, you're talking with people, interacting with people. Whereas now you're talking and interacting with coworkers is maybe via zoom. And so again, you're sitting and, and not standing and not moving around and walking around.

It makes a huge difference. It's simple, simple stuff. It turns out we as humans, we are built to move and move frequently throughout our day. We were not built to be sending and our metabolisms. You don't have not adapted to the current lifestyle. And now in the midst of the pandemic, if you are, he didn't notice the day, like you said, you're on zoom or you're in Google meets or you're with one of those Microsoft products, but it's a Microsoft team. Something like that. Boom. You're just sitting. So if you don't have to sit for your meeting, don't stand up.

Yeah, definitely. I'm, I'm definitely a huge fan of that.

Yeah. So for presenteeism, here's another tip and you can have presidencies of presenteeism, even if you're working from home. If you find that you're always tired after you eat your lunch, that is a great clue for you around what's happening with your metabolism, your blood sugar regulation and your energy. So if you find you're doing that face plant into your desk, make sure that your lunch is filling and healthy. You want to emphasize the leafy greens, healthy protein, lean protein, and healthy fats. That stuff burns a lot longer and keep your energy up. Whatever you do, don't make lunch. Super-Duper high in carbohydrate, like lockbox of fried potatoes, bread, things like that. Or you'll be doing the face plant at 2:00 PM on your desk and you'll be exhausted. So set yourself up to win. That's one way to avoid your own presenteeism. That's usually the on-ramp. So not feeling well is to eat crap for life. Don't do it eat healthfully as you as much as you can.

Yup. Yup. Again, makes perfect sense. And I could relate again, back to my corporate days. It's funny. I was just talking to Mrs. Biz about this. We there was we were driving around town over the weekend and went past this this pizza joint. That's been their local place. They've got really good pizza. And I remember at one point my office was very near that place and we would go, I forget what day it was every Tuesday or Wednesday. I think they had some sort of special for our JP Morgan chase employees. And I would go there with one of my coworkers every Tuesday or Wednesday and sit down and eat a whole bunch of pizza and everything else that I remember those days of, you know, we used to joke about it because we knew it was going to happen that afternoon. That as you've mentioned, you're going to have that face plant at two in the afternoon. You're going to be just dead tired. All of a sudden.

Yeah. Yeah. And any intention you had for, you know, getting the rest of your work done, having thought flow and intelligent choices, it you've just still compromised yourself. You know, and you might not understand that relationship. I wanted to make sure we're just really making that clear. You know, somebody next step goes to your beverages. This is the time when you really want to emphasize beverages that are just beverages and don't have added stuff. So specifically you don't want added sugar. So if you're the person who runs out to go get coffee at your local coffee shop at three or four, o'clock in the afternoon, I'm talking to you do not go and make that your habit because you usually, what goes with that then is people start pouring in a ton of sugar. And similarly, even with the sugar substitute, you've now trained your body to expect this input of a sleep tape.

So two things happen if it's actual sugar, you've now wrecked your own blood sugar, which makes you tired, right. To do a face plant your presenteeism. The other version is if let's say you do a diet thing, right? So it's got a fake trigger. What you're doing is picking your tongue. Your tongue tastes the sweet sensation from the fake sugar, right? This trigger substitute. But your brain is like, Hey, hold on. We got a sleep gate. Where's the calories. And about an hour or two later, you're going to want to snack on some actual calories, not fake one. This is how we get cravings and get into what I call the, the squirrel cage of wanting the things that will destroy it up. That's how you can trap yourself. So the key, how you unpack yourself is you learn to enjoy fodder. Again, half herbal tea, that's just plain, nothing added to it.

Black tea, that's plain green tea, plain, just enjoy 50 or for that matter coffee, whatever the beverage is, but get out of that habit of adding in the sweet stuff and give your tongue a solid two to speed me, to calm down because it takes about 10 to 14 days for this, the taste buds three growth. So we'll take a minute, you know, to get out of that habit, but we expect it to happen in a day, but give yourself a few weeks. Otherwise it comes presenteeism. You will not be performing well because you're going to be feeling exhausted. You got to set yourself up to win,

Man. I love it.

Practical tips. These are things that we can all not only implement for ourselves, but for our teams to help limit absenteeism and presenteeism. And again, this week, our guest has been Dr. Beverly Yates, Dr. Gates, thanks for coming on the show. Really appreciate it.

Hey, my pleasure. Glad to be here. Thanks so much for having us again. Appreciate it.

Yes. Thanks for listening guys. Have a great week and don't forget as always cash flow is King.

This has been Mr. Biz radio to learn how to become part of Mr. Biz nation. Visit for access to free weekly content. Subscribe to the Mr. Biz, YouTube channel and follow him on Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, and Twitter, to listen to archive shows. You can find them on the Mr. Biz solutions website.


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