Overcoming Sales Call Reluctance

Overcoming Sales Call Reluctance

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Mr. Biz Radio: Overcoming Sales Call Reluctance

Unedited transcription of the show is included below:


Welcome to Mr. Biz Radio Biz Talk for biz owners during the next half hour, Mr. Biz, Ken Wentworth, a leading business advisor, and two time bestselling author we'll cover topics. That'll help business owners run their companies more profitably and more efficiently. If you're ready to stop faking the funk and take your business onward and upward, this show is for you. And now here's Mr. Biz, Ken Wentworth.


All right. Welcome to another episode of Mr. Biz radio with me, Mr. Biz, Ken Wentworth. And you know, I say this all the time, but some of you guys are loyal listeners probably get tired of hearing me saying this, but we, you know, after doing the show for almost five years, we're always looking for new, innovative topics, things that we haven't talked about in, you know, a bazillion shows over five years and, and, or, you know, new angles did some of the things we have talked about before. And this week's guest definitely has something that we've not talked about before, but something that I know that, you know, at least a good chunk of you guys that listen on a regular basis, entrepreneurs and business owners probably struggle with I know it's, it's something that a lot of people aren't very comfortable with and that's why we have this week's guest on.


And we're going to talk about overcoming sales call reluctance. So everyone out there, I promise, I can see you raise your hand if you like making sales phone calls. Okay. That's right. I don't see any hands. Well, maybe that's because you're on the radio and you can't see you, but anyway we're going to talk with we've got an expert this week and he's going to talk to us about what is it, what causes it? You know, why is it a problem? And then frankly, and finally, I should say in the last segment, we're going to talk about ways, how to overcome that, how to overcome that sales call reluctance. So that being all said I want to welcome our guests this week to the show, Mr. Wally Bressler, Wally, welcome to the


Show. Hey Ken, thanks so much for having me, you know, I had my Andrea, by the way, I don't know if you saw it. I'm one of those rare she likes to make sales calls, but I'm definitely in the minority. Yeah.


Yeah. Well, I would expect you would be given your, your your history and your expertise hopefully you're, you did raise your hand actually. And I think about it because otherwise, maybe this will be a crappy show. I'm hoping you don't have to care and you, but I think no, no, no. I'm not saying that at all. I would have to say it is. We're relying on you. This is, this is in your wheelhouse, so yeah, we definitely want to talk. So Wally is the co-founder of a company called phone sales secrets, duh. I mean, who else would you have on and talk about phone call, phone sales reluctance, right? You can find out more at phonesalessecrets.com, follow them on Instagram. And I should also mention real quick here, before we dive into some of Wally's story is he's also got a podcast called own the phone, which a pretty cool name, especially given the topic and subject matter.


So, so while he, why don't we get started with, I should you know, I, again, while he's got 20 plus years of experience in the sales game, and here's, you know, I probably should've given this stat before I even told you the topic, but 80% of new salespeople and 40% of seasoned salespeople suffer from this, this, this malady, this sales call reluctance. And so that's why we have our guests this week, Mr. Wally Bressler. So Wally, why don't we start with walk us through your entrepreneurial journey. How did you get to become a phone sales secret guru?


Well, it it was a long, hard road. In fact, I, you know, I didn't start my entrepreneurial journey until I was I was 30. I graduated from college in 1990 with the Amazon college in Clinton, New York, really good school. And you know, I remember in my junior year when 1988, a had a friend in high school whose father sold insurance policies to low-income families and they provided me with leads and training. And he even took me out to lunch every day, but it was a period of probably two months. I sold a whopping one policy and I just couldn't pick up the phone. And, and his name was David Willie, you know, Mr. Willie came in and he said, you know, you don't like this dude when I said not released, well, we appreciate having you, but we can't keep you.


So anyway, that was the these are my shorts introduction to phone sales, which I failed miserably at. And then I worked in the mutual fund industry. And after I got into college, but everything was inbound calls, but they did start teaching us things like, you know, how to make presentations and how to talk to people and how to do sales. And I started doing a lot of research on on how to be good over the phone and how to be good face to face. And then, you know, I took a Dale Carnegie class, probably watching some Tony Robbins things. And then you know, my confidence grew immeasurably and I was probably nine, 10. They went to in 1998. And I finally realized that I had some value to add. And I knew that my skillset was, was actually, you know, homed pretty nicely.


And I remember we had a sales presentation at the companies. We had quarterly sales presentations to stay sharp. And I know I did a really good job, but I got, you know, everybody was like, Hey, then another one of the best things we've ever heard. And I came in third and I really just, it just burned me. And so the gentleman who I was eventually my mentor, I had married my best friend and, you know, the real estate company. And so, you know, his, his wife's like, he'd be really good at that. You should go work with Brian. And I said, okay. And so that day, cause I was just so torked off. I, I called Brian said, Hey, can I come talk to him? He said, yes. And I went, I went and saw him and he was on his deck painting and I was in my suit from work.


And I go, why are you a real estate agent? He said, well, he said, what did you do today? And I kind of recount the story for me. He said, okay. And then what did you do with today? He says, well, I went to two closings. I picked up two checks. I rode my motorcycle out of the coast, had lunch and came back and I've been painting my deck, right. Not a lot of convincing. And so I went and got my real estate license in in about two weeks, which you can't do anymore. I read the book, took the test and in August of 1998, it became a licensed real estate agents. And then over the next 14 months I sold 72 houses. So yeah, it was really blessed and you know, it wasn't just me. I was in a good system and I had good training and everything, but I really took to it.


And so I ended up working with Brian and helping him grow his organization. And he was a great, great leader, great salesman, great everything. And, you know, we grew the business to a little over 400 transactions a year. And, you know, Brian took, took the franchise to number two in the world with Coldwell banker for like three or four years in a row. So it's pretty amazing. But in, you know, until then in 2001, you know, I started doing some coaching and training and kind of fell in love with that. No, my mom was a school teacher. And so I don't know if I had, you know, bit by the teaching bug, but I started coaching and working with real estate agents. And so, you know, since 19 probably since 2001, I've been coaching real estate agents, you know, across the United States and Canada and helping them grow their business.


And so really for that period of time, I had worked on being an entrepreneur and then helping entrepreneurs at the same time. So I've been connected with some of the top real estate agents in the country. We've learned a lot of things from them helped a lot of the top real estate just in the country. But you know, most importantly, I really learned, you know, because when you grow your own business, you make a lot of mistakes. You talk to other people, you learn from their mistakes. And so I've been able to, to, you know, I think I took like 12 or 25,000, you know, live trainings, one-on-one calls and you know, and video trainings over that period of time. And just been able to been fortunate enough, I should say, to really be able to work with some amazing real estate agents and help them achieve their goals and then achieve my goals at the same time.


But interestingly enough, little over a year ago, maybe. And I was because over the period of time that I've been coaching was kind of interesting. Can you not have coaching clients? And can I give them homework to do? And one of those things was to start working on their prospecting efforts. And every week we would get on the phone and I'd say, how'd your prospecting go? And they say, I didn't do it. And I said, outcome, and it just look, I got busy, you know, and everything came up, you know, everything under the sun, even if it wasn't important week after week after week. And I would say to them, you know, you know, there was a carrot motivation, there was a stick motivation, scarcity, motivation, whatever I could do to get them to get on the phone, they just couldn't get on the phone. I'm like, why are you paying me to coach you? Because you're going to help me with my business. I'm like, I can't help you if you don't drive sales. So I was talking with one of my coaching clients. I'm fascinated by the human brain and then our subconscious. So I was talking to one of my coaching clients last year. The guy's a fireman. My name is Brian O'Neill. He's out of Greenville, South Carolina. Now this guy walks in and out of smoking hot sire, dangerous building.


Hey, well, let me, let me, let me jump in real quick. We got to hit a break. And so, but I think it's a really good, that's a good cliffhanger for everyone. Literally is talking about a firefighter walking out of houses. So come back after the break and Wally will finish his story.


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Awry. Welcome back to Mr. Biz Radio with me, Mr. Biz, Ken Wentworth. It is time for the Mr. Biz tip of the week, and I'll make it quick because I know everyone is on the edge of their seats waiting for the end of all, Is the conclusion of his story. so this week's tip is actually a quote from none other than Mr. Grant Cardone. And I love this one. he says set your goals, that match set goals that match your potential, not your ability. So don't just think about, oh geez, I can, I'm capable of doing, you know, whatever 25 pushups. So let's do 25 pushups today. You know, what, what is your potential? Could you maybe do a hundred, you need to set your goals based on the hundred, not the 25 on your potential, not just your ability, you gotta stretch, you gotta continue to stretch. So that is the Mr. Biz tip of the week.

And my apologies Wally for for cutting you off. But I wanted to make sure we got the break on time and it actually was a good place to have a little bit of a cliffhanger heading into the break. So, so so you're, you're, you're talking with your buddy about he's a firefighter and you're talking with him, so let's pick up


There, right? Correct. So anyway, so he, you know, he, he became a real estate agent cause he, you know, he had a daughter wanted something more for his life, you know, not that being a firefighter is bad. It's good. It's just, you know, when you're 40 years old, you've been doing it for 20 years. It starts to take its toll. You know? So anyway, we started working together and we put his plan together and I said, okay, you know, we've got to get some lead sources and you have to start prospecting. He says I'm not picking up the phone. I figured it was when he was not, I'm afraid to pick up the phone. I'm like what? He's like, you save people's lives in the sideboard, right? You, you, you know, you save, it was like you carry people out of burning buildings.


You walk back into the burning building again, to get more things. And you're, I mean, you're afraid of about eight ounces of plastic and leather jacket. Not only that Kent, the guy's got like tribal on both arms. He goes by the tattooed agent, you Google them, Brian Donella, tattooed agents. You can see his arms, you can travel to countries. Like, I dunno, get this. And so I'm like, you know what? I just, I finally felt like I had to attack the problem. And so I looked back at my life and you know, we're going to roll linked to where salt tails are, reluctance comes from and, and, and he'll understand it. And I'll say a little bit about myself and how I came to it. But I looked back at my research therapy. I'd done through coaching, had gone through, you know, all kinds of reading and things like that.


And so for the program together, and I said, Hey, we're going to do this. And so I took me through the steps that I take people through. And in 45 days he had no more sales call reluctance. And I was like, wow, cool. You know, I thought it would work, but you know, not that quickly. And so no word of a lie as first week of calling, you picked up a listing for $540,000.

Oh wow. So sold it. And the guy was a builder or a contractor and he just listed and sold the guy second house. And I talked to him yesterday on our coaching call. And he got another listing from a guy who's a disabled veteran. And and I said, where'd you find that when he says, you know, when I was circle prospecting six months ago, I just stayed in touch with him. So basically, you know, he picked up three sales for over totaling, more than a million dollars just by working on overcoming something that he just was convinced you would never get over. So I was, you know, and then I just fell in love with it. And so I'm like, Hey, you know what other people I started doing research. And that's where I found out why were so many people suffer from sales call reluctance? And then so I started phone sales secrets and, and there you have it well,


Interesting. So, so first of all, you overcame those, let's, let's back up to that, right? So again, we hear this all the time while he, and it's, it's fascinating to me because it's very consistent, no matter where people come from, their entrepreneurial journey almost always includes absolutely falling on your face at some point or another. And I think, you know, we talk about it all the time on the show, but I think I talked, you know, about the, what separates the most successful entrepreneurs from the ones that are no longer entrepreneurs or just not very successful is that I call it consistent perseverance that, that continuing to get up and life knocks you down. You continue to get up.

Obviously you got knocked down and you said the heck with this crap. And you got back up from, from your, from your presentation situation, then you, you know, you go into try to be an insurance salesman and had some issues there. Right. And you got knocked down, got back up and finally got to work. What you're really good at clearly. Cause you know, obviously the results that your, your client's having is, is a, those are amazing things. So let's, let's go into that a little bit more about, you know, what is sales call reluctance? And we know where does it come


From? Okay. So, you know, sometimes it's called sales call reluctance or syndrome or call reluctance syndrome. And basically it's when somebody is too afraid to pick the phone and call somebody either that they know or don't know, they're afraid to get in front of a video camera to record social content, their social media. And they do that because they're afraid of being embarrassed. They're afraid of having their feelings hurt. They're afraid of being judged. You know, it really comes from, excuse me, just emotional, you know, basically we're looking at here, it comes from basically what it means is, is that people are unable to engage in different aspects of the sales process, where they would have to put themselves out there and face some sort of a negative response. I mean, you know, loosely defined, that's what it is, where it comes from.


Well, this is where I learned a lot from myself. So I'm just going to, it comes from one of a few places. So the first place is trauma. So either, you know, you were physically beaten or emotionally abused or sexually abused, or you were bullied. And you know, at that moment, you know, cause we have you know, we have a you know, a sympathetic nervous system, right? Fight or flight. So one of two things happens when we get challenged and we faced fearful situations. We either flee. And so, you know, the people that suffer from sales call reluctance and I'll, I'll go a little deeper, but at some point in their life, one thing that could be that they face some sort of trauma. And as a result of that trauma, it scared the crap out of them. And they never wanted to be in another situation where they would be hurt again.


And, you know, and that was my case. And I'll just give you the broad brush strokes. You know, my parents have both passed away. They died young. My dad was 40 and my mom was 64. So relatively young. And but you know, my dad was verbally physically abused by his mother. And although he didn't really physically abuse me, I was, you know, I was an only child for about five years, but you know, he used to speak down to me speak ill of me. And, you know, one of my punishments when I was five or six, was that I would be sent to bed without dinner if I didn't behave well. So, oh, wow. That's a problem. That's a problem. And that began, you know, my my challenges with anxiety and also, you know, probably a 45 year battle with with with food and, you know, and then so anyway, so that was the challenge.


And then when I was 10, I was sexually abused. And then when I was 11, I started looking at my dad's porn pornographic magazines. And at the age of 12, I started having sex. So combined with a tremendous amount of bullying by the time I was 13, I pretty much hated myself, you know, and I was not willing to put myself out there to be hurt. And so post-op, you know what I'm saying? And so, but then from the age of 13 beyond, you know, in an effort to try and fill all those voids and make that pain go away, I made a lot of bad choices. You know what I'm saying? I did things that were hurtful and shameful and, and where I felt guilty of unite. I became a horrible liar because of all the shame that I felt.


I mean, I probably wasted about $4 million in my lifetime. You know, it was unfaithful to my ex wife four times. And and I was doing some real estate investing in the early two thousands. And you know, and ended up that I ended up spending a year in federal prison for, for for mail fraud. It wasn't really trying to steal any money, but you know, the people with whom I was working, you know, were trying to cut corners and I saw things and ignored them and whatnot. So, you know, I've made a lot of bad choices and hurt a lot of people along the way and experienced a tremendous amount of shame. And so you, what I've learned is, is that when we experienced trauma, you know, and we done it, doesn't get resolved like back in 19 10 78, no, one's talking about child abuse. I want to talk to him about sexual abuse. You know, nobody's telling their kids not to touch anybody else's body and vice versa. And so I didn't think he's going to tell anybody. So I just had to figure it out for myself. And clearly I didn't do a very good job because I didn't know what to do. So anyway, trauma,


I was going to say, well, man, the trauma you have experienced is just as crazy in it. And we're up against a break here. So I wanna, I wanna make sure let's, let's let's put a pin in that one for, until we hit a break here. I want to, I want to make sure we continue this conversation, but we're going got a few seconds left here again, we're talking this week with Mr. Wally Bressler co-founder of phone sales secrets. You can find out more www.phonesalessecrets.com, follow him on Instagram and his podcast Own the Phone.


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All right. Welcome back to the show. And we've been talking this week again with Wally Bressler co-founder of phone sales secrets, and man we, we ended ended last segment pretty heavy there with a lot of the stuff you, you went through as a child or young adult, et cetera. And you know, kind of led to some of this, this call reluctance you're talking about. So so go ahead and pick up there while I don't know where, where else you were going to go at. And again, I didn't want to cut you off, but we had to had a break there, but yeah, go, go ahead. And then let's talk through, you know, we, you, you talked about, you know, what it is sort of what it comes from. Obviously we know why it's a problem. It holds people back significantly, but, you know, continue your story or a rapid, however, you'd like, do it. Again, it's, it's up to you, how much personal you want to share again, I don't want to cut you off.


I'm good. I think I just want to give you the broad strokes. I'll spare you the gory details. But anyway, so, you know, in that, and that's kind of, you know, so that was really the reason I was afraid to pick up the phone because I just, you know, no, self-worth no, self-esteem, didn't believe I was worth anything and you know, but it doesn't have to be anything that big. I mean, you know, it could be, you know, it could be that you left things went worth it. You know, maybe you're talking to your dad Monday and when your kidney says, you know what, Jen, don't start a radio show, don't start a podcast, you know, words, nothing good happens to them. So just don't put yourself out there, right? So it could be programming from an adult, you know, it could be. And sometimes it's decisions we make ourselves, like I convinced myself, I was poor when I was young, all the kids at school and Levi's and Nike's and all kinds of good stuff.


And it's using robots. And what if my parents could get me and, you know, I had lunch in B for God's sakes. I mean, kids have better lunches. And I did. I really convinced myself, of course. So anyways, these hidden identities get created and then they, they impact our decisions about what we're willing to do, not to do, to go forward. So the other side of that is fight like Ken Shamrock, he's a UFC fighter. You know, he went through an abusive childhood, you read a story and you know, he was like, Hey, listen, you're never going to hurt me again. And so he went and turned his, his his pain into something that made sure that no one ever heard him again, it became a UFC fight, but at the end of the day and all has to be resolved. And so that's kind of what kind of gets lead me into kind of where I am next, but until you resolve whatever those issues are, and again, it could be something very, very small until you resolve that issue.


Nothing is going to change, right? You're not going to wake up announced dinner the next day. You're not going to be, you know, one sentence, we're more confident just by waking up the next day, you have to go ahead and solve the problem first. And then you'll be able to start doing things you need to do to grow your business. And the great thing is, is once you overcome your sales call, reluctance, there's all kinds of employee benefits that come with it. Right. So you wanted me to talk about my five step process, right?


Yeah. Yeah. So we've, we've only got about six minutes or so left. So I don't know if you can squeeze it all in, but as much as you can squeeze in, we'd love. Yeah. We'd love to hear


It. Yep. I'll do it. I can do it. Chuck. I can name that tune in three notes so I can do it in six minutes. So, okay. So the first part is the first step is awareness, right? You have to become aware of where the problem is. And a lot of folks from they'll tell you exactly what, how I get people to find out where the sources and a lot of folks, folks laugh at me and then they do it. And so here's the thing, your subconscious remembers everything you've ever seen. Everything you've ever heard, everything you've ever tasted, everything you ever smelled, everything you've ever said, and it's not forgotten a thing. And so it's in there. So you can actually talk to your subconscious. Like I Googled it on a Lark. And then I realized that, you know, you can ask your subconscious set of questions.


So I just tell people to get a five by seven index card and write on it. What is the source of my sales car? Reluctance question mark, and then carry with you during the day, read it at bed. When you go to bed, ask yourself three, to go to bed, leave it on your nightstand. I had people that laughed, laughed at me in my class. And then like, I get a text message, you know, the day thanks. I didn't sleep a wink last night or I'm able to sleep for two days, right? Because your subconscious goes and finds it for you. So the first thing you have to do is identify it and, and, you know, be aware of what that challenge is. So the next, the next part is you know, we call it defining and then being mindful. So what's defined, you know, what the, you know, in Rick Carson calls it a gremlin, right?


So what does that Grambling, what does that, what does that that inner voice telling us that keeping us from being Tufts one and what kind of emotions are associated with, what's defined it, let's create a picture. Let's get, let's get around those emotions and then let's start to become mindful. Meaning let's really become present with those feelings when they come up so that when they come up, you know, we can identify them a lot, rather than letting them take root. We can start working with them and, and, and realizing that they don't have the power we give them. The third step is his basically reprogramming your mind. So now that we've identified the problem, and we've kind of gotten to the point where we can grab hold of those emotions. Well, let's go ahead. And let's reprogram what we say to ourselves, affirmations.


Let's reprogram what we read. Let's start exercising and get all those, those, those good chemicals running through our body that help us feel better. You know, let's let's do some journaling. Let's really start taking control of the narrative inside of our head and say what we want to ourselves and how we want to be, rather than just letting what happens, happens. And then, because, you know, you're bringing them into fights for a little bit. You got to kind of stay on it. So you got to continue to be mindful and present when those negative emotions come up and learn to send them out the other side of your brain. And so once we get to the point where we're thinking that things and feeling good about where we're headed, we've talked about step four, which is your drive. Let's figure out what drives you.


And then let's not do carrot and stick drive. We've talked about mastering something in autonomy, and you know, how do we become a master of something so that we can become autonomous and be whoever we want to be and do whatever we want to do in life. We talked about the three freedoms, right? Financial freedom, time, freedom, location, freedom. You know, what do I need to master to have those things happen in my life? What do I, how do I become autonomous? So I can, you know, work where I want to work, make the money I want to make and do it on my own time. And then the last tip is figuring out your why, and I help people figure out their actual, why, you know, why, why do I want to go ahead and pick up the phone and make phone calls? Why do I want to be a salesperson?


Why do I want it to be an entrepreneur? You know, and what is that going to do for my family and me, you know, a lot of people like my children or my wife, well, your children are what your, why is what you're going to do to make sure that they're taken care of. You know, so one of my wife's and my children that I never want them to feel unsafe. So I, you know, I make sure that I do things. I show them that I protect them. I showed them how to protect themselves. I'm there for them. And they know that they can come to me with anything so that they don't have to go through what I went through. So that's kind of the process. And in order to get people to get excited about their driving, their wife, you've got to get them to stop thinking about it whatever, everything in the past.


And I kind of, I kind of came to this little quote, says, you know, once you looking at what you're running from and start looking towards what you're running to, you know, that's when you find out who you really are. And so that's what it's all about is, is clearing out all that negative programming and all that garbage, and then figuring out what you want and then helping you believe that you are worthy and deserving of what you want. And when you do that, your sales call reluctance will go away. I've had it happen as quickly as two weeks for people. And some people have had to take the class two times, you know what I'm saying? So, but it works from the, you know, that's what matters to me.


I'll tell you why this has been really cool because first of all, we got into a whole lot of stuff. I didn't know we were going to get into, which is really cool. Number one, number two, I liked the approach. And I think it's, it definitely has a different angle because I'll be honest with you. You know, we talked a little before as a show and, you know, I did some show prep and things like that. I had no idea we'd go in this direction and that your approach was as, as as mental and psychological as it is. And I think that's super important because everything you said makes perfect sense of, of we know what causes that reluctance. And, you know, you've got to get past those barriers. You gotta clear those barriers or you're going to have, you're going to struggle.


Whereas a lot, I think a lot of sales gurus, so to speak are going to tell you, oh, well just make more phone calls or, you know, here's, here's five closes, just use one of these five key, you know, they're going to take that approach. Whereas that, I feel like if, you know, from what you were saying, if they have those things still lingering in their background from, from their, you know, earlier in their lives, et cetera, doesn't matter what clothes you give them. Right. They're still going to struggle because they have those issues. Right? Yeah. So, I mean, I love that approach and I think it's, you know, that's probably separates you a lot from, again, the typical quote, unquote sales guru, who, you know, again, just going to tell you, oh, I'm going to give you a book with a hundred sales closes and it just learned them all, you know?


So really, really cool stuff. And look, I mean, time flies when you're having fun as always. And I want to make sure that I let everyone know, again, we've been talking with Wally Bressler he's co-founder of phone sales secrets. You can find out more at www.phonesalessecrets.com, follow him on Instagram. I know I do. And also check out his podcast own the phone, and you can also pick up a free course that Wally offers, and you can find that at www.phonesalessecrets.com/go. And I would definitely encourage you to go out there and check that out because, you know, you can go through the free course and determine more of what you already heard, but, you know, maybe while I can help you with some of these things. So again, while I really, really appreciate you coming on show a fantastic content, really appreciate it.


Thank you. And I'm very grateful for the opportunity and I love what you do for the the entrepreneurs and the the salespeople look in your row, your listening group, you know, you really help people make people's lives better. So I appreciate it very much. Yeah.


All right. Thanks a lot, Wally. Well, thanks for listening guys. Have a great week and don't forget as always cash flow is king.


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