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Mr. Biz Radio: How to Use a Podcast to Increase Sales

Unedited transcription of the show is included below:

(00:03):

Welcome to Mr. Biz Radio! Biz Talk for Biz Owners. During the next half hour, Mr. Biz, Ken Wentworth, a leading business advisor, and two-time best-selling author will cover topics that'll help business owners run their companies more profitably and more efficiently. If you're ready to stop faking the funk and take your business onward and upward. This show is for you. And now here's Mr. Biz, Ken Wentworth.

(00:30):

All right. Welcome to the episode of Mr. Biz radio. With me Mr. Biz, Ken Wentworth. And we're gonna cover a topic today. You know, we've mentioned podcasting a little bit in the past you year and there, but it's been interesting. I, I I'm, I know we've got, I've gotten feedback from a lot of listeners, viewers that there are a handful, oh, not more than a handful of you guys, but that are actual do have a podcast and are looking for different ways to be able to better monetize it, optimize it, et cetera. And then there are a whole bunch of you that I get feedback from on a regular basis that are, want, want to start a podcast. I was gonna try to make up a want to be podcaster, I guess sort of name there, but so what did we do?

(01:18):

We go out and we find someone who's an expert in the field. So our guest this week is none of them. Mr. Dave Jackson, who's founder of the school of podcasting. He has been podcasting since, are you guys ready for this one? 2005? Yeah. We're, we're working on 17 years. I think you might know a two thing or two about podcasting, as I mentioned, he's the founder of the school podcasting. He's a keynote speaker. He's author of the book, profit from your podcast. Hmm. Intrigued. and in 2018, he, he is a 2018 academy, a podcaster hall of fame inductee. So we don't just have a podcast expert. Who's been doing this for almost 17 years. We have a podcast hall of Famer. Dave Jackson, welcome to Mr. Biz Radio. Thanks for joining us,

(02:05):

Ken, thank you so much. Yeah, I'm still trying to, I, I bring in like the little trophy that says hall of fame at the grocery store. Doesn't do a thing for me. So, but it was an honor to to be inducted, but I'm happy to be here. Ready to talk some podcasting.

(02:20):

Yeah. Awesome. Well, it's funny. This is literally, and I don't, even, if you can see it this is the first show with, with the Mr. Biz Radio won an award and I was like, I had it in my home office and I'm like, well, it's not doing me any good there. We might as well, you know, put it on this, on the set here. And so it's the first time I put it up, but same thing, this thing, you know, I don't get a discount. The grocery store, I don't get a free Loaf of bread. I, I mean, I don't know whatever, but

(02:48):

That's it.

(02:50):

So Dave, why don't we get started you? So you obviously you've been doing this for, you know, as I mentioned, almost 17 years now. Let's talk about your entrepreneurial journey. What got you into podcasting?

(03:00):

Yeah, I, my background is I was teaching technology in the corporate world for, and this sounds weird. Like I used to teach people how to surf the internet because they didn't know what it was. I would teach people how to send email, cuz I didn't know what it was. So I've been doing this a while and in the process of that, I first got into bill building websites with Microsoft front page. Yes there, that, and that led me to the internet and newsletters and things like that. And just along the way, I just saw multiple things come up and they'd say, this is gonna be the next hot thing. And they'd be like, oh, I wonder if I should do that. And then I wouldn't do anything. And another, this is gonna be the next hot thing and sure enough, it was the next thing.

(03:39):

And I sat there and watched it happen. So I had a friend of mine come back from a marketing conference and he said, Hey, you know how you missed the MySpace boat? Which again, kind of dates this. And I said, yeah, yeah, don't, don't rub it in. He goes, well, the next, the next big thing is gonna be podcasting. And I Googled it and there was one and a half pages. And I was like, I think we broke the internet loan, type it back in. There's just no results for it. I was like, well, that's weird. And they were also saying that the next big thing was gonna be membership sites. So I was like, well, I've watched the number of these things kind of come and go, like, I'm gonna jump in on this one. And so I piece this part together, a podcast.

(04:16):

And I just remember the first time I uploaded a file and, and then saw it come down in this other software. I was like, oh, wait a minute. I get this. And then probably about a month after that, I was, I did a podcast for musicians cuz that was one of my I had a newsletter for musicians and I got voicemail from my guy in Norberg Germany. And I went, wait a minute. Cause you knew it was global. But like when you hear somebody I'm in the middle of that cow town, Ohio, and I got a guy from Norgberg, Germany saying not only had he found my podcast, but he liked it that I went, oh, okay, I'm gonna grab whatever flag I have and we're gonna plan it into podcasting and have been doing it ever since.

(04:56):

Well, so Dave, the, the two things I get out of that are number one you made a good decision on missing the MySpace boat. I know for, for a short period of time, it was probably, you probably were bummed about that, but you jumped in on the right one here. I mean obviously podcasting has absolutely taken off and I can't imagine back in 05 , 0 6, whenever that was when you heard from someone again, it's probably difficult for those of our listeners and viewers that are maybe a little younger to even fathom back in 05, 06 podcasting, as Dave mentioned was like nothing. And the internet was still, you know, relatively new. Right. So to hear from someone from Germany that found your show had to be mind blowing.

(05:40):

Yeah. I, I just kept playing it. I was my brother happened to be over and I hit plane. I was like, hello, Dave, this is Michael van Lar from Norberg Germany and I hit stop and I go, did he just say Germany? And hello Dave, this is Michael van Lar. I just hello Dave. This is, I was like, I can't believe I just hello Dave. This is I, I just could not believe it. Cuz back then, I mean, this was the iPod. This is before iPhone and, and you'd say to somebody, do you wanna start a podcast? They'd say what a what's a podcast. Cuz nobody knew what it was and then he'd go, do I need an iPhone for that? Like, no, I just need the internet and some speakers and you and a microphone and, and you'll be good to go.

(06:15):

But yeah, it's which is why all the nerds, the early shows and podcasting were all technology shows because we are the only people that could figure out how to make one and how to get one. And then you had language, there was a surge of language shows and then eventually comedians came in. So the Adam Corollas and the M ark Marons and all that. And then of course the that's still going. The through crime thing came along with serial. And when I saw serial get there was a parody on Saturday night, live on serial. And I went, okay, we we've hit the mainstream. It took us a while to get there. But I don't run into too many people. Now, if I say, have you ever heard of podcasting? They may have heard of it. They may, they may have actually listened to one, but at least heard the term. And so the fact that the new sex and the city reboot on HBO and now Carrie Bradshaw has gone from being a New York times bestselling author to now she's a podcaster. I was like, right. It's kind of fun to see it getting drift into the mainstream.

(07:15):

Well, it's funny you say that you, you know that when a top, a, any topic, when it gets spoofed on Saturday night live, while somebody look at that and go, oh man, we they're dogging on us. It, you know, you've hit the big time. Right. You know, you're like you said, you're in the mainstream when Saturday night Live's making fun of you. It's, it's obviously topical enough for them to cover it. It's funny. I, I cannot even fathom back in oh five because you know producer around and I've been doing Mr. Biz Radio since 2016. And when I tell people that normally Dave they're like, holy crap, you've been doing this for six years. Like that's crazy. You've been doing it way longer than that. So I can't even imagine.

(07:55):

Yeah. The, the first conference I went to, we were in a, was in a hotel in Ontario, California. And it was interesting cuz somebody would walk into the bar and they'd be like, Hey, I'm looking for the podcast thing and we'd say, oh, this is it. And they'd be like, what's your name? And he'd be like, oh, I'm C.C. Chapman. And it was like, cheers. We all listened to each other's podcasts. We'd be like C.C., Cuz we, nobody knew what anybody looked like. But there were only a handful of podcasts back then. And we all met together and on area of California and, and shared notes. And this is what's working for me in that whole nine yards. But it was a lot of fun and it's, it's been a fun ride. And now I'm, I'm talking into a machine that probably five years ago, it would've been a thousand dollars and now I can get it for a couple hundred bucks and it's specifically geared towards podcasters. So that's the thing that's been fun along the way is it just keeps getting easier and easier and easier to to create him.

(08:46):

Yeah. Good stuff. Good stuff. Well, I want to continue talking with Dave Jackson. We're gonna hit a break here. We're gonna come back after the break. We're gonna talk more about the evolution of his podcast into the school of podcasting and what that works and how that works out.

(09:00):

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(09:30):

Thank you for listening to Mr. Biz radio. Did you know our show airs seven days a week for more than 30 hours. Now, if you are in the B2B space and we'd like to reach thousands of business owners every week, including our more than 250,000 social media followers are thousands of daily internet radio listeners, our email list fans and Mr. Biz solutions members email us at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. to become a sponsor. Tap into Mr. Biz nation to help grow your business.

(10:00):

Check out both of Mr. Biz national bestselling books, "Pathway to Profits" and “How to be a Cashflow Pro" on Amazon. Now, once again, here's Mr. Biz.

(10:13):

All right. Welcome back to the show and it is time we always do at the top. Second segment is we get the Mr. Biz tip of the week and this week's tip is take action. We talk about this all the time. A great idea without action is nothing is the crappy idea, cuz it never gets executed. Success only comes through action and execution and here's the key part that'll make you remember. Or this quote in, in this tip, the road is riddled with flat squirrels who couldn't make a decision, do not be a flat squirrel, make it happen. Take action, execute on your ideas. Don't wait, don't wait for the perfect time. It's never gonna be a perfect time. You gotta make it happen. That is Mr. Biz tip of the week. And so, so Dave, let's, let's pick up where we, you left off. If I, as I recall, we were in Ontario, California at a, at a podcast seminar, if you will. Yeah. So how did you evolve and continue to evolve from that into obviously you get tons of experience and to starting school podcasting.

(11:17):

Yeah. So I I'd been doing this podcast for musicians and again the whole, Hey memberships are gonna be the next big thing. And I was like, okay, I'm not gonna watch this one. You know, go by me. So I started the school of podcasting and I had a teaching background. So that was kind of already built in. And what I learned was at the time, anything that came up podcasting, I would put into the school of podcasting. So the joke was the good news about the school of podcasting is it has everything you need to start a podcast. The bad news about the school of podcasting is it has everything you need to start a podcast. And that's where I kind of went, Hey, hold on a second. I need to figure out who is my target audience? And let's create a nice, clear path for them because they don't really care that there's 8 million different types of microphones.

(12:00):

They just want me to go here. Here's the best one. Here's the best place to host your files. And so I just realized at the time I was the teacher and me was like, I'm gonna make this buffet and here's all the stuff you need pick what, what, whatever you want. And people are like, yeah, I don't want that. Just tell me what to do. So that was probably one of the earliest lessons I learned when I first opened up the membership site. Membership sites are great. It's you know, when you get people to sign up, they will stick around. And that's where the, the number one way you make money with a podcast, everybody loves to jump on advertising, but it's not really advertising unless of course you're advertising your own stuff because through the podcast, what I always tell people to do is anytime you can make a point through a personal story, the audience gets to know you.

(12:45):

They ki, I just had a guy in town last week that said, I gotta take it to pizza. And they said, this is so weird because your voice is coming outta your head. And he goes, I feel like I know you. So that's really what happens through the podcast is people get to know you and if you're delivering good tips and insights, you know, like that great tip, you just did there, you know, take action. I always tell people, you either have a really successful podcast or a great story about the time you started a podcast and it didn't work, but you gotta take action. And so you, you, they like you, they know you and if you're there, whatever your schedule is, if it's once a week, twice a month, once a day, whatever it is, when you hit that schedule, they now become they, they basically trust you because you're there every week, you're reliable and you also become part of their routine.

(13:32):

And so if you're selling your own product or of it's like shooting fish in a barrel, I have a a coupon code that I give out on my show and I don't have it in print anywhere so that I know that anybody that used that code, they came from my podcast. And I would say an easy 70% of the people that sign up at my website are using a coupon code. So it's, it's a really handy way to, it's not really the business people thought, oh, I'm going to sell the MP3 file. And it's like, no, no, no. Use it as the marketing piece of whatever product you can do. Now you can do that. You can sell bonus content and things like that. There are tools now, again that have come out to make that super easy. But the number one way to make money is to, to promote your own stuff.

(14:12):

And there are other ways there are affiliates and there are people that are actually, they're just crushing it on crowdfunding. Because again, people want you to keep doing what you're doing, many podcasts. What's great about it. It gets kind of compared to radio a lot. And it's really more like cable television. If you look at cable television, you got animal planet and the food network and ESPN 27, that's covering some weird, bizarre sport, but it's information. You can't get any place else. And when they find your content, they're like, holy cow, this was made for me. And so that's where in some cases, crowdfunding comes into play. Cuz people want you to keep doing this because they can't get that information. Any place else.

(14:57):

Well, it's funny. So two things you mentioned that really hit home for me specifically, you know, the whole voice aspect of it. So the, the, with, with doing an audio version of my book, you know, I had several people. I was going, I, I, I, I actually did a, a speaking engagement at a voiceover conference and I was teaching some of the voiceover actors as they call themselves to, to monetize their business better. And I got, of course I got pitched. They said, oh, well you have these books. Do you have the audio versions? And so I said, man, you know what? So I got a bunch of pitches, right? Short versions that they would read sections of the book for me unsolicited. But I'll tell you, Dave, everyone sounds more intelligent with the British accent. I think most people agree with that.

(15:42):

And a guy, a guy with a British accent sent me his pitch for reading my book. And I'm like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. This guy has to do the audio for my book. Cause it sounds so much better when he reads it. Right. And I had so many people say, you can't do that because you do so many videos, you do so much content and audio content specifically as well that it's gonna be, it'll seem super inauthentic because people will buy the audio version of the book, expect to hear your voice because that's probably where they found out about the book in the first case was your show or, you know, one of your videos or whatever, and they're gonna go, what the heck happened? This isn't Mr. Biz. Like what the heck? So I'm like, oh crap, I gotta do this on my own.

(16:24):

So changing that. And I agree with you a thousand percent in, in regards to monetization, it's it. I found it similar to a book. You know, a lot of people think like you read a book and it becomes the best seller and you make like a bazillion dollars and that's not necessarily the case. Me too. It's a nice little revenue stream. It can be. Yeah. But it's not a ton of money, especially depending on your publisher and the agreement you have with them, unless you're writing, you know, Harry Potter or something like that. You're more than likely not gonna make a whole lot of money. It's not like retirement money or on a book, but it becomes like a business card. It helps you monetize other aspects of your business much. Like I think a, a podcaster, you know, show does for you as well.

(17:04):

I've been hired a couple times because I knew podcasting. I got hired at a college and I was applying to be a, a professor. And they brought me in because I could create a podcast cast for students on how to be a better student. And it, it kind of just kept the whole college up to date on what was going on. But it also then was used as a marketing piece of like, here's all the stuff that's going on at the college. Here's why you wanna attend here. So it was helping the students, but it was also it kind of built a little bit of a, a FOMO, right. For missing out like, oh, I need to go to that school. Look what they, and they're, they must be cutting edge, cuz this again was probably, I don't know, 2009 and people, they have a podcast that college is really up and at it.

(17:44):

So there's that one. And then I was hired there was a, a conference called the new media expo at the time. It was the biggest one for podcasting blogging and video. And the guy that ran it needed somebody to run the podcast track. So he, he called one of the media hosts and said, who do you think would be a good guy? And they said, Dave Jackson, he called a second and a third. And they all said, what do you think about Dave Jackson? And that's because they knew me from my podcast. So I got to be the the podcast guy at the new media expo. And it was amazing. So it's, it's a, like you said, it's a business card that works 24/7. And I had somebody say once that it's interesting because you've gone from being words on a page when they read my blog to an actual person with a voice and you can, you got tone of voice and all that other fun stuff up that you can throw in that just it boosts the boost the communication,

(18:34):

Absolutely agree. A hundred percent. So some of you may be wondering how do I find out more about what Dave has and about school of podcasting? Well, you can go out to schoolofpodcasting.com duh go out there and check out all the different things he's got follow him on Twitter and Facebook as well. He puts out a good bit of content there. And we're gonna hit a break here. We'll come back and we're gonna find out from Dave, how to use a podcast to increase sales.

(19:01):

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(19:30):

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(20:02):

To submit questions to the show, email them to This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.. Now once again, here's Mr. Biz.

(20:11):

Our right welcome back to the show and the time is flying by. So I don't wanna belabor me blabbering on about this, that and the other I wanna talk to and, and pick Dave's brain here, because obviously you can tell he is got tons of experience. He's a great educator, great teacher. Honestly, Dave, I'm not just saying this, just your voice alone is like it's, it's soothing. And, and honestly it makes you wanna lean in. It doesn't mean you have this booming radio voice, but it there's something about your voice. That's that sort of like, again, it just kind of makes you lean in like, what's this guy saying? So that being said, if you wouldn't mind, give us some tips don't give away too much of your, your secret sauce in school podcasting, but give us some tips on how to use a podcast to, to increase revenue, increase sales.

(20:57):

Yeah. I, the bumper sticker answer is spend a hundred dollars on a microphone and spend a hundred hours getting to know who your audience is because what I always tell people, if you have a business, you know, those you emails that you have to answer. Like for me, the questions I get all the time are what's the best microphone under a hundred bucks. How do I grow my audience? How do I record remote interviews? I, you get the same questions and you're like, Ugh, well guess what? Those are your top three, top five in episodes, cuz you know what your audience wants to hear. And this allows you to kind of flex your muscles as look at me, I'm an expert because I'm telling you the best way to do it. And when they do that and they go, wow, that worked and it was easy.

(21:35):

Now you're a trusted expert. And so when you say, Hey, if you would like consulting or if you want my course, you wanna buy my book, whatever it is that works. So, and when you, if you do a solo show, you grow your influence. You are basically saying, Hey, and you're talking to one person, none of this YouTube stuff where it's like, Hey guys, it's like, no, thank you so much for tuning in. I'm so glad you are here because most of this stuff is heard through earbuds. And so it sounds like you're having this personal conversation with people. But the other thing you can do is you can do interviews. And so many people go well, do I do an interview show or do do a solo show? And I go, why are you limiting yourself? Do both. And what that allows you to do is talk to people that you have no business talking to because if you went up to them and said, Hey, can I pick your brain about marketing for like 10 to 20 minutes?

(22:22):

They go get outta here kid. You bother me. But if you say, Hey, can I pick your brain for like 10 to 15 minutes on my podcast? Be like, oh, this is great. Where do I go? How do I do that? And so when you do a solo show, you grow your influence. When you do interviews, you're growing your network and it's that network that can then really boost your exposure, which then gives you more listeners. And it just starts to snowball. It takes a while to build that first audience. But there's that there are, are, you know, anytime you answer a question in the industry about whatever's going on, I know I had a person that was a real estate and he said, I'm getting not that his customers were dumb. He goes, but I'm not doing that 1 0 1 stuff anymore because I don't have to explain how to get your house appraised and how to do this and all this other stuff.

(23:07):

He goes, he goes, I'll still get those question. She goes and I'll answer them via email. And I'll say, we talked about this on episode seven of my podcast, click here to listen. And he goes, when they go over there, they see I've got all these other episodes. He goes, so now they come back to me with really good questions. He goes, they've done all the 1 0 1 stuff. And he goes, and now we're ready to do stuff that I can make money on. He says, and what's great about that is it works 24 7. And, and I don't have to deal with that as much. It's not the end of cold calling, but he said, I don't have to do all that kind of handholding. And you know, it's just, it's part of business. And he goes, that's somewhat now automated. And then the other thing at boost is I had a friend of mine.

(23:47):

I talk about this in my book where he started a podcast called the audacity to podcast and it was supposed to be like the gumption, the courage to podcast. But it just so happens that there's a free software called audacity. So this guy attracted an audience that was looking for free stuff, which is not the audience you want out when you're trying to sell them web design and all these other things that he was doing. And so what he did is he attracted an audience and said, okay, well, what do they need? Like what do these people want? Well, we had a bunch of podcasters that wanted to rank better in iTunes and all this other stuff. So he created a, a software as a service program called my podcast reviews and is doing for very well with that. They wanted to rank higher in apple.

(24:28):

So he created a course on how to do SEO for apple and all this other things. So in some cases, you'll end up with an audience that you go, well, this isn't what I expected, but then you look at them and say, okay, well what do you want? And if it is the audience that you expected, you now have a fun time shift conversation where they go, Hey, I really love that information. On that last episode, I was kind of hoping you were gonna talk about such and such. We needed to write that down. And it's just one of those things where it's a great conversation starter and I've, I've had people kind of jokingly say, I talk to you more than I talk to my best friend. And he lives a block and a half from me because I will send you an email you'll reply on your podcast, cuz I'll, anytime somebody gives you any kind of feedback, keep that in your, your show.

(25:15):

And he goes, and then I'll hear the reply and I'll email you again and you'll reply. And, and it's just this kind of time shifted conversation. And so it's, those are just some of the ways that you can use it to boost your sales. And it's it's, it's weird because you know that, I know that, you know, that it's just you and I don't know, you're in a closet, you're in a spare bedroom, but it does go out to a global audience and you don't have to spend a gazillion dollars to to sound great.

(25:43):

Yeah. Well, especially with that, I mean, you know, cast aside the video aspect, if you, if you're just doing strictly a podcast, as you said, and, and technology's so inexpensive now, I mean, I I'm, I'm certainly neophyte, especially compared to your knowledge base with all that. But man, like you said, you can get a, a pretty high quality microphone for, like you said, a hundred bucks or less and you know, there's so many different softwares out there that are very are inexpensive. You could literally be in a closet, you could throw up some, you know, acoustic tile foam in, in, in a closet, go in there and record and be done. And, and, and I love what you said too about the, the aspect of doing you know, solo shows as well as doing interview shows. I do both.

(26:25):

Most of my shows are interview shows where I interview people, but you know what, I save him for David and, and sounds like you, you would be a fan of this as well and something you would follow and you, you teach is I, I typically, when I do a solo show, sometimes it'll be on a specific topic that might be hot or whatever at that time in the business world or whatnot. But I do a lot of, I call 'em ask Mr. Biz. And so the questions that we get into the show specifically from shows and, or specifically outside of shows, like, Hey, again, as you mentioned, I'd love for you to talk about this or could you do more of that? Whatever. So I just I'll do ask Mr. Biz shows where just literally ask or I'm sorry answer listener questions and feedback that they've given on different topics. And those seem to be pretty popular as well.

(27:11):

Absolutely. I remember when I was growing up and I called a radio station, cuz I thought they would play the record that I wanted to hear and I requested something and I don't know, Hey, play some van Halen. And they're like, we don't play that, but I'll play some Loverboy for you. And I was like, okay, Mr. Rocker, play rocker boy. And it, so I, I then learned that what I'm hearing on the radio isn't exactly that, but I still tuned in to listen to myself, request that. And when you mentioned somebody's name on your podcast, they kind of home get all giddy and what are they gonna do? They're gonna tell their friend, Hey, how was on this guy's podcast, check this out, which then gets that person to listen who then maybe, you know, calls in or emails in whatever it is.

(27:51):

And so anytime you can get your audience involved, I do a thing with my show. It's called the question of the month. And I, I talk about it the first three weeks of the, of the month and the last four month or the last episode of the month is them. And then I also chime in my opinion, on the question of the month. And it's just something that I've had people say that, oh, I found this show because they, cuz I always say, tell me what your answer is, but also then tell me the name of your show, where I can find it and a little bit about it. Cuz we're podcasters getting the point is not our, our strong suit. I'm like, so tell me a little bit about your show and it's great fun. And what that does is it gives me insight is to who is listening to the show.

(28:29):

And I didn't even think about it when I started it. I just wanted to get my audience's opinion. And now I get an idea of all sorts of wide variety of people are listening to the school of podcasting. So it's a lot of fun. That's the other thing. It is a lot of fun. I can go just about anywhere. And I remember once it was some place, some little town in well and I announced it. I'm gonna be in whatever Oklahoma on this date. And somebody reached out like that's right down the street from me. Can I take you out to dinner? And I was like, this is amazing. So you will meet you'll end up making all sorts of friends all over the world. It's it's a lot of fun.

(28:58):

Yeah. Well look time, we run outta time here, Dave, but you've shared a tremendous amount of information. That's 'been very valuable again, go out and check out schoolofpodcasting.com. Check out his book as well. Profit From Your Podcast". UDave, Mr. Hall of Famer in the podcast world. Thank you very much for coming on Mr. Biz Radio. I really appreciate it,

(29:21):

Ken. Thank you so much. This was a blast. Thank you so much.

(29:25):

Absolutely I absolutely. Well guys, thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. And as always, don't forget. Cashflow is King.

(29:35):

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