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Mr. Biz Radio: How to Live Wider & Deeper

Unedited transcription of the show is included below:

(00:04):

Welcome to Mr. Biz radio, Biz. Talk for Biz owners. If you're ready to stop faking the funk and take your business onward and upward, this show is for you. And now here's Mr. Biz, Ken Wentworth.

(00:18):

All right, welcome to another episode of Mr. Biz Radio with you, Mr. Biz Ken Wentworth. And this week we're gonna talk about something. We try to find these different types of topics, different angles that impact each and every one of us. And this one will impact us impact you, whether you are an entrepreneur or business owner. Even if you're not, you could be in the corporate world. You could be a stay-at-home mom, a stay-at-home dad, it doesn't matter. This is going to be an impactful episode shared with tons of insights, putting a lot of pressure on the guests already. Joining us this week is none other than Jodi Wellman. She's a leading authority on living lives worth living. We're always trying to do that, right? We're talking about legacy, things like that. As a speaker and facilitator, she helps her clients live squander free.

(01:02):

I love that that terminology lives. While they're lucky enough to still be around above ground, while cleverly beginning with the big end in mind, she named her business 4,000 Mondays. I'll tell you, when I talked to Jodi, this is a side note, I'll get back to the bio in a second. But when she, when she and I were talking and she said, you know, had an idea to come on the show, as soon as she said 4,000 Mondays, I said, you can stop. You got me. We're we're good. So she named her Business 4,000 Mondays. And we'll talk about what that is, because it shines a light on the finite number of weeks. We have to live like we mean it. Jodi holds a master's of applied positive positive psychology from the University of Pennsylvania, where she's also an assistant instructor as a certified coach. With 25 years of corporate leadership experience, she helps executives, teams, and high performers work well and live even better. Jodi, welcome to Mr. Biz Radio.

(01:56):

Oh, thank you. I am super stoked to be here chatting with you.

(02:00):

Yeah, look, I I, I've been looking forward this conversation. I think it's, gosh, it's been how many, it's been a few months ago when we talked and I can't remember if I mentioned it when we talked, cuz we just talked briefly cuz I, again, when she kind of pitched me on the idea, I said, seriously, like, I don't need to hear anymore. Like, we're good, like <laugh>. But I'm in, I'm in a group, Jesse Hitler's sort of inner circle group, and it, the whole co he has the same sort of concept behind, you know that relates to your 4,000 Mondays and he calls it Build Your Life Resume. And he talks about how a lot of things that you talk about his is much much less formal I guess. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, he's pretty informal guy. But, but he talks about living your life, you know, like, and using your terminology. He doesn't use this terminology, but living a, you know, a deeper and wider life. Not just a longer life, you know, make the most out of your time here. So I'm looking very forward to talking about this. Before we get into all that, that though, Jodi, if you would share with us, I mean your entrepreneurial journey, how did the heck did you get into this? How did you decide, you know, this is what you're gonna do?

(03:07):

Oh yeah. Happy to, happy to walk down that path. Which you just, yeah, I don't know why, but you triggered a memory for me. One of my favorite gifts when I was eight years old was my parents made me for the holidays, a stamp that had, at the time my maiden name was Rule, it was the Jodi Rule Company with my address. Cuz I always didn't you after dinner go and play business. I, you know, I would stamp everything after that. Like, I think I stamp my forehead, right? So like, you know, when you just know, you're like, I wanna do my own thing and I don't know what it looks like, but I'm gonna stamp everything. Right? So, but then I went to school and went into the typical corporate world, which, you know, what I really enjoyed. I got 17 amazing years of great leadership experience.

(03:53):

Pardon my pardon my throat. And I loved it. I got to a senior role. I was senior vice president of operations for a national health club chain loving life until I wasn't. And like you've heard this before, right? That feeling of when you're kind of like, okay, so something's missing. You know, I'm not learning and growing as much anymore. I, I don't know what I wanna do. And that was stressful. But this idea that there's gotta be more out there. And so, you know, I have this sort of, this sort of stapler story where I was stapling papers in my office in my corporate job where I reloaded the stapler and I said to myself, I will not be here by the time this row of staples is done. Okay. And so I was down, I was like on it, except, you know, what happened is I did nothing.

(04:41):

So a year later I'm stapling just, just a bunch of balloon. And I realized the stapler runs outta staples. And I realized it felt like a gut punch if only like I had punched myself. Cuz I had taken no action to figure out what a what. Okay, so you're feeling disenchanted, but you gotta do something about it, honey. So I did, I worked with a coach and I decided to go out on my own. That's the start of my true entrepreneurial journey of starting at my own leadership and development coaching business. And, you know, no looking back except for the, the mild tweaks that happened along the way. Right? So you start something, you're loving it. I got a really amazing business partner and we were doing great things together and we still do great things together. But once I started studying this topic called Memento Mori, which means remember that we must die, I'll tell you more about that in a minute. Yeah. But it woke me up and I realized, wait a sec, I wanna make this more of what I do. This is my brand. This is what lights me up, and I wanna help other people light up with whatever it is that lights them up. And so yeah, I still do a ton of work working with leaders, teams of leaders executive coaching mostly through keynotes. But it's really with this brand and topic that has lit me up. So that's the, the journey in a nutshell from age, from age eight

(06:00):

<Laugh>. Yeah. I, I love it. I love it. So I have to ask. And, and I had a very similar type of situation in the corporate world and loved what I did and all that kind of stuff. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> but pre stapler moment. Yeah. Was there, was there like one thing or was it just an accumulation of things that, that that that stapler moment happened? Was it just like maybe a meeting that happened before that, earlier that day or that week earlier that month, whatever, and then just for some reason you were thinking about it while you're filling, doing a mindless task, like filling the stapler. Right? was there something just one thing or, or, or, or was it an accumulation of things?

(06:37):

I love the question cuz it for me manifested as just a bunch of stuff over time. And so I knew, I was already aware that I had, I was itchy, you know, I wanted to find a thing. But, you know, to be honest, like I wanted it to be easy. I wanted it to find me, you know, I wanted to be headhunted. I wanted to just like slide into something. And, you know, this has just been a fabulous life lesson for me that I actually incorporate into a lot of my work is like, if you want a life worth living you, it's not just gonna happen to you. You gotta actually imagine, well what does that even mean to me? Because it's different for all of us. And then what are you actively going to do to make that happen? So yeah, I had a lot of little moments of hmm. Disengagement or, well, this isn't fun anymore, this isn't challenging anymore. I've reached the ceiling cuz that was true and I'm ambitious and I don't like stealing. So it was a bunch of stuff adding up me not doing like jack squat about it mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and then all of a sudden the catalyst was the stapler of like, now I have a deadline. Except again, I squandered that <laugh>.

(07:41):

Interesting. Yeah, I can totally relate to what you're saying. Like I said, I, I had a very slimmer situation, corporate world loved it. And just sort of had reached, you know, again, it wasn't any one event for me either, and it was just an accumulation of things. I had a stapler moment as well. Yeah. But it wasn't that specific thing, it was just an accumulation of things. Yeah. So it's all, I I I always love to hear these journeys for me personally at least of how that happened. Especially for folks that were in the corporate world and ascended and did really well in the corporate world. Because I, I, you probably had the same thing. And I know we're, we're running out time here during the segment. We can pick this up during the next one. But I'll give you this to chew on cuz we'll talk about this in the next segment, is how many of your family and friends when you told them you were gonna leave the corporate world said, you're insane. You have this great job, you're with a great company, you know, you're, you're probably making a good bit of money, et cetera, et cetera. So chew on that. We're gonna hit a break here again this week guys. We're talking with Jodi Wellman. You can find it more on her website at guess what it's called. fourthousandmondays.com. Follow her on Instagram as well as on LinkedIn. We'll come back after the break. We'll give the Mr. Biz tip of the week and we're gonna get Jodi's answer on if people thought she was crazy. <Laugh>.

(09:01):

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(09:40):

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(10:10):

Got a question for Mr. Biz. You want answered on air, email it to This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.. Now once again, here's Mr. Biz.

(10:21):

All right, welcome back to the show at this time, as always, it's top second segment for the Mr. Biz tip of the week. This week's tip is to constantly, constantly seek customer and employee feedback. You can't fix what you don't know about. This is so, so important. It sounds so simple, so practical, but it's something that I see every stinking day that people just don't do it. I went into a business, had a client, they were having severe turnover issues when I started working with them. And I said, well, what did your last employee survey say? And they looked at me like I had three heads and I was talking a foreign language. They hadn't, they had never, they hadn't been in business for 12 years. They had never once done an employee survey. They had never once done an exit interview with an employee who was leaving to determine, Hey, what did you like about working here?

(11:10):

What, what was a pain in your butt? You know, you know, you have to do those things because again, as I as this says, you can't fix what you don't know about. So very, very important. And it's all about communication, right? You gotta keep those communication lines open extremely important. So that is the Mr. Biz tip of the week. Let's get back into talking with Jodi Wellman and the cliffhanger questioned. I shouldn't say, did anyone, I should say how many people in your life thought that you were crazy when you said you were leaving the corporate world at this big important job and you're like, I'm gonna go do my own thing.

(11:43):

<Laugh>. Yeah. Oh, I love the question. You know, what immediately stood out to me? The minute you asked was, it really wasn't so much external. Maybe it's just cuz like, I don't freaking care what, you know, they think. But it was a, I thought I was crazy. And that was the biggest stumbling block, at least personally, right? Was who, what am I doing? You know, I was caught by the trappings of success, right? Like, I liked all the pleasures, the money, like you alluded the title on the business card. I liked that I knew what I was doing. I felt like an expert. And there's always a little bit of fear about, well, now I'm gonna go into uncharted territory. And that could be fun, but it all could also could be a total freaking failure. Sure. I liked the parking spot. Like, I loved all the stuff <laugh> that except, you know, unfortunately when like, the scale was tipping in favor of like, okay, well that's nice, but like, what about, oh my happiness my wellbeing.

(12:37):

And I really tuned in with the help of a coach to some stuff I help people with now, which is like, what matters to you? You know, what do you, what, what do you value? And for me there are a ton of things that I just wasn't that, that were no longer being fulfilled at work, like creative expression the ability to build something new and exciting. And so I was like, well, I I, I'm just gonna go do that. And I just budgeted and planned like, okay, I knew it was gonna take two years to ramp up to the cushy lifestyle I loved and so fine, but like, make a plan and work the plan, right?

(13:11):

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I love that. So, so I have to ask you, now that you, this, you're sort of on the other side of the desk, so to speak mm-hmm. From this, when you were leaving the corporate world mm-hmm. How did you choose a coach? Mm-Hmm. How did you, so you had, like myself, I had been in a corporate world forever. I was completely oblivious to, to entrepreneur. I'd always dreamed of being an entrepreneur. I'd always wanted to start my own business and do my own thing. Yeah. But I had no idea at that time. How do you choose a coach? How do, and so now that you do some of that, right? How did you choose a coach? And, and, and by the way, maybe you made a mistake or two. What are some things that we should look for in a coach such as yourself?

(13:50):

Hmm. <Laugh>. I chose a coach I knew personally. Okay. It was an, a former employee of mine that I had so much respect for. She turned into a career coach. And I, you know, in my usual, you know, moaning and groanings as you vent to a friend, it was like, well, wait a minute, what if we just turn this from like mindless blathering about and moan into, oh, like I could hire you and do this. So for me it was based on a previous relationship. And so, you know, former employee term friend who I could hire, and you know, that that dynamic doesn't always work for everybody. And that's fine. And so what I recommend is find a, find a click like you, like someone you click with, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So someone that someone might come recommended by a buddy of yours, you gotta feel like when you chat with them, like have a chemistry call and feel like you are whatever you need. Like someone might need motivation and accountability, then you wouldn't gonna wanna find that someone else might need someone to be a real, you know, drill sergeant. Well then you're gonna wanna find that. So having lots of conversations and calls, get referrals from friends and then have some chemistry calls and I don't know, don't drag it out. Like, pick your best of three.

(14:59):

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. I love it. Yeah. So let's say we've got someone who's watching right now who's listening mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And by the way, guys, we're gonna talk in the last segment. She's gonna give us some tips like we always do in the third segment. She's gonna give us some tips on how to live a life worth, worth living, talking about legacy, living a wider and deeper life, et cetera. But before we get into all that, what, what does it look like? So let's say someone's interested, yeah. That's listening or watching and they go, ah, I'm kind of interested. And they go out to fourthousandmondays.com, that's fourthousandmondays.com. And they connect with you. What does an engagement with you look like?

(15:33):

Well, everyone's favorite answer. It depends.

(15:36):

I love that. Generally, actually I say the same thing, <laugh>,

(15:39):

Right? Right. You know, there's an asterisk on everything. It's like, ah, it's generally though, if someone is looking for what I'm hearing you talk about is kinda a one-on-one coaching situation. Yeah. And that is, is pretty common. I typically work with people over the period of whether it's like a three month, up to a year, depends on the goal. So if it's somebody who is looking to spruce up sort of soul search, do a little bit of course correction on, again, like where might they wanna find their fulfillment at work, which might involve changing their work, but often it actually involves just quite frankly, reframing the current job they have. But that's a whole other conversation. That might be, you know, a three month engagement of about six or seven sessions for other people when it's more about showing up the way you want to as a leader.

(16:26):

Being mindful of your legacy. Like you just hinted at a second ago about how mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, you know, am I actually leading in accordance with the values I have? Like how do I wanna be described when I, when I'm outta here, you know, when I leave this place in the dust. And so being mindful of how one shows up, you know, that's not typically a zip zip that's a little bit more of maybe it is a like a six month plan, about 12 or 15 sessions. And it's usually every other week on average. So mm-hmm. <Affirmative> so that people can we talk about what you wanna do, you go out and do it, you come back and debrief what worked, what didn't, why, what do you wanna do differently? And, and therein lies is the progression of wow, you know, I'm feeling stronger, more confident in this area, more capable, or Wow, I have a plan. Or, wow, thanks for holding me accountable. Cuz otherwise I just had a, I mean, we all know like the road to hell is paved with good intentions, <laugh>,

(17:16):

<Laugh>,

(17:16):

Right? We all have great ideas you know, and if I didn't have a coach or two, I've always got one or two on the go, like books. Aren't you always reading like seven books at the same time? I've always got coaches for different reasons and it's like, I have lots of ideas. I'm looking over at a pile of them. And if I didn't have my coach session coming up the end of the week, I wouldn't, like, I, I, I need the accountability. So that's, that's obviously a big chunk of how it would work, working with people one-on-one.

(17:42):

Yeah. I love it. And, and by the way, guys, so I should mention, if you're interested and you're, you're, you've peaked, she's peaked your interest and you're like, man, this, this might be something I need to look into. Before you do anything, go out to her website, fourthousandmondays.com. She has a free quiz out there. Take the quiz and if you forget the for slash don't worry about it. If you go to her website, you'll find it pretty easily. I do pop up <laugh>. Yeah. but go out and check that out because it's, the questions on there are very thought-provoking. And I think if you go through that quiz, it's gonna even pique your interest more because you're gonna start to think about things like, we're talking about legacy, depending on your age. I mean, you could be, start thinking about this when you're in your twenties and thirties, let alone people that are maybe a little longer in the tooth, I don't know, like myself mm-hmm. <Affirmative>

(18:34):

That are really starting to think about that and, and what you're leaving behind and some of the things you're doing. And, and as Jodi mentioned, does it align with your values, your morals, your ethics, wh how you people, how you want people to think about you after you're gone, as she said, leaving this place in the dust things like that. So again, fourthousandmondays.com. Go out and check that out. Follow her on Instagram, fourthousandmondays.com. I'm sorry, fourthousandmondays.com Mondays in on LinkedIn as well. Go out and follow her there. We're gonna come back and she's gonna give us some tips, which I know we're all waiting for. And I'll be taking copi amounts notes. We'll come back on. Mr. Biz,

(19:11):

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(19:41):

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(20:11):

Check out all three of Mr. Business best-selling books at mrbizbooks.com. Now, once again, here's Mr. Biz.

(20:22):

Alright, welcome back to the show. And it is time for everyone to really get out your pens. Or you know, if you, you take notes on your phone, whatever you do. Everyone loves this part of the show because I think primarily I shut the heck up and we got our expert to actually give us some really good tips. So, Jodi if you would without giving away all the secret sauce, of course, what are some tips that you can give us that are, you know, practical, practical, actionable? Yeah. Can I say those two, two together fast that we can do as business owners, entrepreneurs and or other that can help us leave the legacy that we want to live a wider and deeper, not just longer life.

(21:08):

Mm-Hmm. Okay, let's dive in. Okay. Hand in hand. Okay. So the first thing is to count your Mondays. And yes, that is the re remain remaining Mondays left. So you've already hinted at it, you know, 4,000 Mondays weeks is roughly all we get, hopefully more, maybe less. Sucks to, sucks to be alive. But if you count how many you have left, and let's just do this math easily let's just average it for male female non-identifying at 80 years. So take 80 minus your age and multiply that by 52 weeks a year. That's what you've got left. And this is based in, it's kind of a psychol psychological notion called temporal scarcity, which is that when we have something in front of us that is an asset that is perceived to be rare or temporary, and we see that and we acknowledge that, ooh, it's value goes through the roof, right?

(21:57):

So, you know, knowing I have 1,892 Mondays left makes me go, well, I gotta get down to the business of living. So number one, become very clear on the fact that like, you have a countdown timer. We all know this, but you gotta get in touch with it. That's number one. Number two, you've already hinted at this and it's the notion about not just living longer. Like, yeah, I wish I had more than 1,892 Mondays, but who knows? What about making them amazing? And what that looks like is widening our lives through this concept called vitality and deepening them by adding in more meaning. So vitality would look like, you know, adding in all, what what do you do for fun? What do you do for pleasure? And most of us are work of freaking hols. We're self-identified as entrepreneurs. We love to work. And like, I, I struggle with this because I love to work and on a Saturday, like I wanna crack at it.

(22:54):

Ha ha. Yeah. And so that's cool. Don't not do the work you love. However, you kind of get that sink and feeling when you know your life has become a little bit one dimensional when you're like, all work, no play. And like we all saw The shining. We know how that ends all work in no play ju doll boy. Like let's not take an ax to, yeah. So number one is widening our lives with vitality is like, what are the fun things that make you feel alive that you think, man, I used to really love? Maybe it's playing the trombone or maybe it's going out and like going in learning a new language or booking a trip to Prague or what you fill in the blanks, but right, you gotta, this is back to our earlier conversation about you can dream about how cool it would be, but it ain't gonna happen to you unless you actually take your calendar out and book January the 20th is when you're gonna go and visit your friend in British Columbia or whatever you're gonna do.

(23:50):

You gotta book it. So widening with vitality, widen, widen, widen. And then the deepening is more of the like the heavy hitting purpose stuff. It's adding in. Meaning many of us find meaning in our work, especially if we're leaders or we're, you know, we're reaching a mission or vision in our, in our work. But again, is that enough for you? And part of this is like, this goes back to your business tip of the week where you're like talking about customer service and that you, you can't manage what you don't know. You can't get better at something unless you know the facts. I look at it and I call it diagnose the dead zones. And I say, figure out in your life where things feel like they have flatlined and like, you know, you know, if it's the fact that maybe your health has gone to seed or you are like you've become in any social hermit because of Covid, do you wanna pick that puppy up again?

(24:41):

Or is it, you know, your spirituality's lacking if you care about that? Or it is maybe the back to the recreation cuz you feel like you've just been become again, mono focused with work. Figure out the area you want more of and maybe for you it's more meaning. And that might mean then well what, what would that look like? Is it getting back in touch with meaning at work? Is it creating better relationships and connections with people that I care about? Is it identifying with something bigger than me? Is it going to places that make me feel awe and wonder about the vastness of the world and make me ponder my own beautiful insignificance in the grand scheme of things? You know? So that's Deeping you referred a second ago to on my website. There's that quiz which will help you identify kind of where you are.

(25:26):

And there are four zones. I at least find it fascinating cuz the research is so consistent after thousands and thousands of entries in this quiz by now, the evidence is clear that people generally feel okay about meaning in their life, but they're lacking in vitality. And so most of us need to do a little more effort in planning for the fun, planning for those fun experiences. You know, don't just read about the new restaurant, go, you know, try something different. And so here, this leads me to, I guess my last point. And then I promise I'll take a breath cuz I wanna hear from you your thoughts on these things. Another big chunk of this is novelty. Like we gotta spice things up. It is so essential for our experience of being alive cuz we get into habits and like I'm a fan I like the seven habits of highly effective people.

(26:18):

Like I wouldn't be highly effective. So is that, are habits the way? No, I'm gonna say no because they can help us initially when we wanna create an important routine, like going to the gym, waking up at a certain time, getting into rhythms that help us. But generally we get into this kind of slumbering existence where all of a sudden it's the end of the month and we're like, where did, how'd that happen? Right? That's because we have become just so routinized and we need to spice it up, try a different meal, watch a different kind of documentary, read a different kind of book, take a different route to work, do a different workout, go socialize with friends you haven't seen in a while, shake it up. So it's diagnosing the dead knowns, shaking it up, counting your Mondays living wider with fun stuff, living deeper with meaningful stuff. Tell me what you think about that as a start.

(27:07):

Dddddddddddddddyeah, look, I love it and I'm a huge fan to even just get started. There's so many things I could say about this, but I'm a huge fan of, like, you, you mentioned all these, all these tips you have, as you mentioned a couple times now, nothing happens unless you take some freaking action. So, you know, I'm heading into this now and so the month of December I plan out the next year. Part of my planning is not just business planning, blah, blah, blah, right? Which I do love. Yeah. But it's planning out, you know one event. So I'm a big fan of this and I got this actually from Jesse Itzler as well, plan one event a year that, you know, the way he describes it, he said, look at when, 10 years from now looking at next year, 10 years from now, when someone says, what did, what happened in 2023, you're gonna forget like a whole bunch of crap that happened, right?

(28:01):

But there's one thing that you're gonna be like, I wrote a book, I ran my first marathon, I went to Prague, I, you know, something that you love to do, but put it like, to your point, put it on the freaking calendar. Yeah. You can't say, ah, yeah, I'm gonna go to Prague next year. And then you get into, you know, March, april, may, and then you're like, oh, well the weather's bad. And you know, the, it's, the flights are exp put it on the calendar, take action and freak and make it happen. I think that's where we, we fail so often. Yeah. You know, the, I love the, you know, spicing it up. I'll go, we'll go to a restaurant sometimes, and especially if it's a restaurant we've never been to my wife and I, and I'll say, you order for me. Oh, I don't, I don't even just, just figure it out.

(28:43):

Like, just order something. I'll eat whatever the heck you order me. Right? And I'm a fairly finicky eater, but you know, nonetheless, I'm spice it up a little bit. I can try some new stuff. You know what I mean? It's, what's the worst that can happen? Look gosh, there's so many things we could talk about. Again, go out to fourthousandmondays.com. Follow Jodi on Instagram, LinkedIn, or account. Theres 4,000 Mondays. Again Jodi we've run outta time already, unfortunately, but man, this is a fascinating conversation. Really love talking with you. You shared so many insights. I've got tons of notes here and I was trying to pay attention and not be rude and take, just take notes. But I really appreciate you coming on the show and you know, it just great, great having you on the show.

(29:22):

Thanks for having me here. Total pleasure talking with you. This is time well spent in our lives that are finite

(29:27):

<Laugh>. I, I appreciate you saying that Guys, I, I'm sure you got a lot outta this show. Please go out fourthousandmondays.com. Follow Jodi. Thanks for watching. Have a great week. And as always, cash flow is king

(29:41):

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