How to Develop Self-Leadership to Lead Others Better

How to Develop Self-Leadership to Lead Others Better

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Mr. Biz Radio: Cultivate New-Found Happiness by "Doing Something Wonderful"

Unedited transcription of the show is included below:


Welcome to Mr. Biz radio, Biz. Talk for Biz owners. If you're ready to stop faking the funk and take your business onward and upward, this show is for you. And now here's Mr. Biz, Ken Wentworth.


Alright, Welcome to another episode of Mr. Biz Me, Mr. Biz Ken Wentworth. And, his week we are going to, I, I look, we, we keep striving to do this right? Talk about things that we haven't talked about on the show before. And it's, it's getting more difficult as we've been known the show for almost 20 years now. And while we have talked about the whole concept in the very different angles of leadership and how important it is to be a good leader, how to be a good leader, what makes a bad leader, all those sorts of things. We've never talked about the importance of self-leadership and more importantly, how to be a good self leader and how important that is to be a good self leader in order to be a good leader of others. And so we're gonna do that this week with our guest,


Mr. Mike Kelly. Mike is an executive coach, consultant, financial planner, and a board director. He is managing partner of Right Path Enterprises where he helps clients improve their ability to lead themselves and others. He's also the founder and principle of Kelly Financial Planning, where he helps clients clarify their goals and make more informed life and financial decisions. He's also speaker and trainer who focuses on topics related to improving individual and organizational performance and getting results through others. He is the, also the author of a book of the book Leader Influence, or, sorry, leader Fluence Messed that up. Leader Fluence Secrets of Leadership, essential to effectively Leading Yourself and Positively influencing others. He's a fellow Buckeye. We're based there around Columbus, Ohio. He's in Cincinnati, Ohio. I was given some grief before the show 'cause I'm a Steeler fan. He's a Bengals guy. But <laugh> not all aside. Mike, welcome to Mr. Biz Radio.


Thank you very much, Ken. It is great to be with you. And the fact that we are not really opposing sides, Cincinnati, I'm sure you root for the Bengals 'cause they, they're really good right now. <Laugh>






Well, they got, so I, I'm a Buckeye guy, so they have Joey Burrow. Yeah. You know, and, and, and our youngest daughter, she, she is convinced that Joe Burrow is gonna be her future husband. So I've got that going on <laugh>. But Mike, before we start diving into self-leadership and some of the aspects of that if you would walk us through, I mean, you've had a fascinating journey. Walk us through a little bit of your, your career journey, your entrepreneur journey.


Yes, yes. And again, thank you for having me. It's great to be with you today to talk about a topic that I'm really passionate about, personal leadership. Yep. But as far as my journey is concerned, I'll go back to Michelin. I work for a French owned tire company called Michelin, based out of Claremont and France. I worked in South Carolina. I'm in Ohio now, but I started in South Carolina with Michelin. And I worked in a manufacturing plant where we made tires, passenger light truck tires. And I started out as an operations type of a supervisor with that company. But I got an opportunity to work in operations and a plant that actually made tires leading a team of people. And after that, I got into H.R.2. So I worked in human resources and a newly created human resources position, which was really a good job. I really enjoyed that very much.


And I also had an opportunity to be a benefits manager while I was in that role. In addition to getting experience in all other areas of human resources, which introduced me to finance, I had an opportunity then to work in sales. And I really enjoyed that. And I did not realize how important that experience would be to me as I started on this entrepreneur journey. But it was a wonderful experience for me. Not easy, but it was a great, great experience for me. And Michelin gave me a chance to really innovate, explore. They were a company that really challenged you to think beyond what you could see. And I had an opportunity as a quote unquote high potential leader with them to get involved in projects that, for example, they've put me on a project that was focused on creating a new channel distribution for North America, for small tire and passenger and light truck tires.


And that was great. So it was almost like being an entrepreneur then. And in addition to that, I had an opportunity to help with creating a new channel, a new 18 month forecasting system for the company. So that sort of gave me an, some additional experience. Wonderful experience. I moved to Cincinnati to get the sales experience, actually. So I came to Cincinnati for what was supposed to be one year, and it turned into eight. I worked outta my home. They created jobs back before, back before actually remote working was the thing. I was working remotely. I had a, I had a boss who was in Pittsburgh, but anyway, worked with them a number of years. Loved the company, traveled overseas, but then Macy's came knocking at my door and they put something on the table that was a really, an offer that I couldn't refuse.


I listened to the offer, ended up countering, and they thought, well, hey, we can do this. So I left Michelin, which was not easy. And I went to Macy's and I went into Macy's with an undefined job. But I ended up serving with that organization as a Vice president of learning and development. I had a team of about 125 people spread out around the country. Tampa, Phoenix, St. Louis, Cincinnati. We built a learning function. And, and I actually had an opportunity to le to leave that before walking away in 2016, to really volunteer in the community and also to start my, start our, start our businesses. And I actually started Right Path Enterprises. One of the reasons I started that executive coaching consulting training is because I ran into a lot of people in corporate America who wanted to be on the outside running their own businesses, but they didn't know how to get out. They were stuck. And I started the financial planning business because I saw that a lot of times they weren't making smart decisions with the money that they were making, so they were locked in. So my goal is really to help people realize what matters most to them, and then develop a plan for achieving it, and also holding them accountable for taking those steps that are necessary. So that's why I do what I do, is really, at the end of the day, focused on making a difference in the lives of people and ultimately our world.


Well, Mike, I tell you a a lot of what you mentioned resonates with me. I worked with JP Morgan for a long time, and it sounds like we had somewhat similar experiences working for a large corporation like that in that you've got such a, a amazing experience there. Talk to me a little bit about, you know, how much that shaped what you were able to do once you did take that entrepreneurial leap.


It, it shaped it a tremendous amount, and it shaped it because I actually hit a wall myself back in the mid nineties when I was with Michelin. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, I was this quote unquote high potential leader who was getting all these opportunities and happened to be, in my case, one of the first African Americans, a black person to get these opportunities. So I felt that, okay, I've gotta work hard to make sure that I am not letting my family down and the company down, but other people looked like me. So I was driving, I was working 12, 14 hours a day, five, six days a week. I actually ended up gaining about having quote unquote success, but I ended up gaining about 30 pounds. I wasn't a very good husband. I stopped going to church. I was working in the community and working basically.


And one day I was having headaches, didn't know why couldn't sleep very well, didn't know why. But really I was, I was headed down the wrong path. And I remember getting up from my desk, going to the doctor, and the doctor gave me something to help with headaches to help me sleep, didn't work, kept going back. Finally they scanned my head to make sure I didn't have anything medical, you know, any physical challenges going on. And the doctor said, Hey, your head's fine, but I think you are under severe depression headed, head under severe stress headed towards depression. You need to change your life. And that led me on this journey of, okay finding my own definition of success, which we can talk more about, but actually realizing that I need to change. And, and that whole process actually led me to doing what I'm doing now. So many of the people that I have the opportunity to serve and partner with, I can in some ways empathize with the journeys that they're on. Being a leader in any organization as you know, especially business is very, very challenging, very difficult. And the expectation is that you'll do what's necessary and do it with a big smile regardless of whether or not you're imploding


Well. Yeah, for sure. And so I was curious to hear that. I I honestly, I I was kind of, I selfishly asked that question a little bit because of the journey that I had that kind of was in parallel. You know, I'd always kind of wanna do my own thing. And I, I, you know, had a very successful career. I was able to do a lot of different things within JP Morgan. But I always knew I wanted to do something and different. And I knew I wanted to run my own ship. And I knew it. I reached the point. My, my sort of epiphany, Mike, was, I, I, I knew I could make a bigger impact and it wasn't going to happen in the corporate world. I could make a bigger impact outside of it. And so that's what was kind of my jumping off point. And I, I just, I kind of abruptly made that decision. That's a whole nother story. But we can get into once we get back here in the next segment. But we gotta hit a break here. We're talking with Mike Kelly. Kelly, you can find out more at Come back after the break and we'll continue talking with Mike Kelly.


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Alright, welcome back to the show. It is time for Mr. Biz tip of the week. And this week's tip is a is a short one. And I'll be honest with you, I've gotten feedback in the past. So people don't like this one. People think this is a little bit too for those of you familiar with a little too much David Goggins ish, if you're familiar with David Goggins at all, and I don't think it is at all. If you follow David Goggins or you listen to anything, and he talks about, I think this is pretty mild compared to, to, to how dedicated of an individual he is and determined. And the tip this week is, if the pain of losing is not greater than the joy of winning, you are playing a game, you will eventually lose the joy of winning's only gonna take you so far in my mind.


It has to be that the pain of losing is just, just what drives you. And, and losing can be determined and defined in a lot of different ways, of course. But I think that's critically important. It goes into a much deeper conversation about what is your why and the impact you want to have and things like that. But that is a Mr. Biz tip of the week. Send all of your nasty comments to Producer Allen. Don't send 'em to me. No, I'm just kidding. We always love to hear feedback, good and bad. But that is Mr. Biz tip of the week. And again, we're talking this week with Mr. Mike Kelly. You can check him out on LinkedIn, on Facebook right. I won't put it in the show notes as well. But Mike, I wanted you, you touched on this just a little bit during the last segment, so I want to pick up there, and that's, you talked about through your journey, your career journey, your entrepreneur journey. You sort of redefined what success was for you. Talk to me a little bit about what that looked like and what your definition of success is now.


Yeah, yeah. Success is something that what I found over my, over my life really, and even now as I do the work I do, very few of us define on our own. And because of that, it's often defined for us. You know, we've got the internet with so much coming at us, we've got media in general. We've got working with Macy's. So having had an opportunity working in retail and understanding how, getting consumers to make decisions without thinking how all that works we have to be conscious about definite defining success for ourselves, which I had not done. I had inherently taken on this definition that Ron Jensen out of California, guy who's a leadership guy to California, he describes as the five Ps pleasure, prosperity, power, prestige, and position The five Ps pleasure, prosperity, power, prestige, position, and reality. For me, that's not necessarily my definition of success, but it's easy to take that on.


And I had taken on elements of that. So for me, stepping back and getting clear on, and you talked about purpose, your why and that sort of thing, but getting clear on that, understanding that life is short. We're not here very long. At the end of my journey, I'm looking back over my life. What would I like to see? Getting clear on what that is, getting a vision of that, and then getting clear on my why. And then after that, determining what mission I'm on and, and creating a mission statement aligned with that for me is important. So for me, success is becoming all I'm designed to be at the end of the day. And also helping others do the same. But it all starts with, in my opinion, Ken, defining success for yourself. If, if the listeners take nothing else from our time together today, I wanna encourage them to take the time to consciously define success for yourself, and encourage those you love, lead, and serve to do the same.


I love it, Mike. Yeah, I had someone explain it to me, and I, I've kind of thought about this way as well. This was several years back, but, and I think it's ties exactly into what you're talking about is, and he, it was a little bit, it sounded a little bit over the topic first, but he said, what do you want people to say about you at your funeral? What would make you feel good if you heard people say X, Y, and Z about you at your funeral? And he said, you know, I, it, it, he was a nice guy. He was what type of those things? And then what can you do in your life to make sure that people will say those types of things about you at, at the, and when your, your end comes and defining success? And it's funny, I was asked the question when I was interviewed one time and someone, it, it kind of came outta the left field.


I didn't know we were even go down this path that we kind of, the conversation took us that way. And he asked me what my definition of success was. And I hadn't really honestly thought about it, but on, in the spur of the moment, I said, reaching my full potential. I don't want to get to the end and realize that I did not reach my full potential in whatever my endeavors are in life as a husband, as a father, you know, as a businessman, as a community person, as a, you know, all philanthropic person. All these different areas of my life. I wanna make sure that I reach my full potential. And to me, that's success. And you could have success in some and not others, of course. But I think that's an important thing. So, you know, in regards to, you know, we're talking about self-leadership and, and things like that. How so with Right Path Enterprises, I wanna talk a little bit, I mean, we're gonna talk, you're gonna give us some tips in the last segment, but I wanna talk a little bit about Right Path Enterprises specifically. How are some ways that you help folks nowadays with Right Path Enterprises?


I help people in a number of different ways, but one in particular I'll share, and, and I could actually share a couple, but one quickly, is oftentimes organizations reach out to me to get my help with a leader who is, for example, I had one situation where someone was described as wicked smart, but they had a lot of other challenges. So for me, someone like that, I had an opportunity. I, I, we, we spent some time together, worked together for about a year, but we started out getting a clear understanding of where the person stood, getting a clear picture, where they stood. And that was done through assessments. I took this person through Disc, Enneagram 16 types, and a few, few other assessments in a portal where we were able to get those results. And then I actually spent time with some people that this individual reported to people who are peers and direct reports, and asked them three questions.


What are her strengths, her, his or her strengths? What are his or her weaknesses? What else would you want this person to know? Got that feedback, sat down with this individual, went through what was in the portal, then we talked about how that was showing up at work. And the person was blown away, was blown away, got emotional. But then I asked the question, what would you like for this to look like in the future? Got clear on that, developed some goals around that, and we started the process of moving towards that. And that incorporated my coaching questions, holding the person accountable, but also integrated some processes into that particular work with this person. One was getting results through others, a process that I use as multi-session process. And over time, this person has gotten promoted into a senior, senior level role and is having joy not only at work, because we also talk about life as well.


So it's not just work, it's life. One other thing I'll share is, one other example is a gentleman who actually ended up retiring at 35. He followed the fire movement, which you've probably heard of. Fire Financial Independence, retire early. So he retires at 35, and he didn't know what to do with his life at that point. Who am I? You know, I've, I've, I've really dedicated my life to being able to do this. So we, we went through a similar process with this individual as well, but we also really spent a lot of time defining what success was and getting clear on his purpose, creating a mission statement, align with that, taking a look at the priority areas of life, and then setting goals to live out his life, align with what his purpose was.


Well, I I love what you said too. You know, I think it's so critical and, and we, thankfully I did this in my corporate care at JP Morgan, but the 360 feedback, because so often the way you're coming across, you might not realize it, right? A lot of people, most people think that they're pretty self-aware, but oftentimes, especially in the workplace, and it was interesting to see for me specifically people who, who reported to me is, you know, how they interacted sometimes it was different between if someone superior to them, above them and, and someone who's equal or someone was below them, which was a huge red flag. Like, oh my gosh. And, and that holds back those people as being good leaders. Because if you're just kissing butt to people above you and crapping on people below you, you're not gonna get very far.


Right? You need to have a team, you need to have to be a good leader and continue to have success, especially in the corporate world. And so I think that feedback and having that and the fact that you take that from multiple different areas and assessments and then, you know, sort of that 360 a aspect to it to really delve into what are the challenges person's having and where's the disconnect? You know, I had the same type of thing with a person before giving them the 360 feedback. And they're like, oh my gosh, people said that about me. Like, I, I never knew. I mean, it's so, so it's mind blowing. We gotta hit a break. I want to, I wanna pick up when we come back on that and then have you give us some tips on developing the better Self leaders. But we'll, okay. Hit a break. Come back talking with Mike Kelly.


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Alright, welcome back to the show. We're talking again this week with Mr. Mike Kelly. Check out his book, "Leader Fluence Secrets of Leadership Essential to Effectively Leading Yourself and Positively Influencing Others". We've been talking about that, the whole show, and we're gonna continue talking about that. Got Through's website, find out more at Check him out on LinkedIn and Facebook. So I wanted to pick up Mike. So we were talking about this assessments and things like that. I'm just a little bit curious. You know, especially I was thinking about it during the break. How often when you go through that process with someone, are they just absolutely blown away? Like, oh my gosh, like, they didn't realize they were perceived that way. Or, you know, do I really come off that way? Or, or is the self-awareness one of those things that's a, a critical first step in, in becoming a better self leader?


It absolutely is. In my mind, Ken, it absolutely, we can't move forward unless you know where you've been or where you are. And I find that really taking more of a strategic approach. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, when we think of strategic planning, it's often in the context of business. What are we, what have we thought about it in the context of our own lives? One of the things I do align with getting that feedback is I often encourage clients, let's get outside of the work workplace. Yeah. Maybe you get some feedback from your spouse if you or significant other, your children, your friends, people that you're, you're serving within the community. What are they saying? Ask them those three questions. And, and that's, that's what I, that's what I've had the opportunity to do with clients as well. And again, there's always this shock, the surprise, but that's okay.


It's better to be, have that opportunity to be shocked and shocked and surprised. It's, it's better to be there than not knowing. 'cause Once we know, then we can set a plan to do something about it. So always, I wish that I'd had that prior to hitting the wall. I did not have that. So for me, it was just drive, drive, drive, drive until I couldn't really drive anymore. And my goal now, as an entrepreneur is to help leaders figure that out for themselves and do the same. You start our time together talking about the fact that personal leadership is, is something that certainly we don't talk a lot about. And, and I've seen that as I've done this work. I've had people come to me and say, self-leadership, personal leadership. I've never heard of that before. Yeah. I'm talking senior leaders of big companies. You just don't think about it. So we have a responsibility. It's clear that you, you have this passion as well to really help people.


Yeah, for sure. And that's a great segue, Mike. So what are some practical things before you leave us? What are some practical things we can do that we can enact on to become better at self-leadership, at personal leadership?


Well, one thing is get the feedback. It might be difficult, but get the feedback. But before you do that, define success. How do I define success? What does that mean to me? But get a clear understanding of that. And it can take time and you might have to continue to move forward to get that. But get the feedback. And once you get the feedback, don't just get the feedback and sit on it. Oftentimes getting the feedback is not easy, especially if you're a person in a high level role. Because as we all know, the higher we are in organizations, the more people tell us what they think we want to hear, rather than what we really need to hear, which is the truth. So then we have to get, become somewhat humble and transparent and ask for help and create an environment where people are willing to tell us the truth.


But once we get that, once we get that feedback, then what am I gonna do about it then? That, that involves certainly setting some goals. But even before you get there, you want to create a mission statement aligned with, with some of the goals that you set. I find that very few people have a mission statement. I can share stories with you about groups I've spoken to, and I've asked a question, how many of your organizations have a mission statement? Every hand in the room go up ask the question, how many of you have a personal mission statement? 3% if that go up. So creating a personal mission statement, align with your why and that vision of, of success at the end of your life. I've done that. And my mission statement is, use my God-given leadership, analytical financial skills to help my family and others grow to become all they're designed to be while continuing to grow myself.


So I encourage people to create their own personal mission statement. And that's another very important point and something that I would encourage everyone to, to do. But then once you get that, think about your life in the areas of the wheel of life, which you've probably heard of. There are a number of them. There's one out there that's faith, family, fitness, finances, fun firm friends. How are you doing in each one of those areas? If you had to rate yourself one to 10, where are you strong? Where are you weak? And if the ones that you say is number one, is the priority for you, if I were to take a look at your calendar, would your calendar reflect that? In most cases it wouldn't. So we wanna get clear on our priorities, make sure that we are not prioritizing our priorities. We're scheduling our priorities in our calendar. And then you wanna set goals in each one of those areas where you are off, where you wanna improve with action steps over time, and get accountability in your life to help you move forward with that. 'cause We, it is hard if we don't have accountability, it can be difficult. But at the end of the day, one of the things that I continue to struggle with, but I'm working really hard at, is celebrating success.




So that is high level. I mean, I could go into more detail, but it is so important. There's a quote that I shared with the team that I had the opportunity to lead at Macy's, and I encourage them to, to do it. It's Jim, wrong quote, and it's work hard on yourself than you do on your job. If you work hard on your job, you'll earn a living. If you work hard on yourself, you'll earn a fortune. And a fortune is not necessarily money, right? It can also be joy, peace of mind. So working hard on ourselves is so important at the end of the day.


Yeah. You, you know, one of the things you touched on there, Mike, is and I heard someone else say this too, is if you have pretty strong self-awareness, which I know some people, some of us struggle with, but along the lines of what you were talking about in all these different buckets is put yourself on the other side of the table. So for example, put yourself, if you have a, a spouse, would you want to be your own spouse? Would you want to be, would you want you to be your father or mother? Would you want to be your customer? Would you want to fill in the blank? Right? Would you want to be you know, serving in the community along my side? Would you want to be serving in, in a faith-based organization? You know, put yourself on the other side and really think about what I want to, would I buy from me? Would I, would I want to be a customer of myself, you know, or would I want to be, you know, a, a spouse, a father et cetera. And I think when you do that, again, it's difficult as you said, but I think if you have enough self-awareness, that kind of opened a lot of eyes as well. You open your eyes as well to like, oh my gosh. Like I'm, you know, I'm doing pretty good in these buckets here, but man, this bucket not so great.


Yeah. What you just just described there, Ken takes humility. And great leaders, really effective leaders understand the power of being humble. So asking for feedback takes humility. It, it also takes humility to listen without jumping in, trying to refute what you're hearing. It takes even more humility to then say, thank you. I'm going to do something with this. So humility. Yeah. And I think it's so important.


Yeah. I'm sorry, Mike. I, I think too is you know, sometimes out of feedback we would get with the, our, our leadership development process that when I was in the corporate world, is we would go through a lot of these things you're talking about, not all of them, but some of those things you're talking about. But then nothing would happen. There'd be a course of action, but the people wouldn't take the action. And so then they wouldn't get better, and then their career would stagnate and they'd get frustrated and, and oftentimes end up leaving the company in a frustrated mindset because they didn't take the action as you're talking about


Action is so important. Action. You know, we, we all know this goals without taking action on 'em really means nothing. And one of the things that can help us there is if we set a goal, think about what is a loss? What is, what are the things to be gained and the losses to be avoided from achieving this goal? And then what are some of the obstacles that might present themselves and what are solutions to each one of those obstacles? And then let's write out what action steps we're gonna take by when and who's gonna hold us accountable for achieving these things. And then finding ways to track that can then allow us to move forward and take. But that takes work. It takes a commitment, but the return on that type of effort is immeasurable, in my opinion, can be immeasurable.


Yeah. And I love it. I, I know this sounds like a numbers nerd, and I am a self-professed numbers nerd, but what you measure gets better, but you have to measure it, right? You have to constantly me measuring those things, because if you're measuring it and having accountability and having it in front of you all the time, you're going to continue taking the actions to get better, even if you have some bumps in the road and some peaks and valleys and everything. Mike, you know, gosh, fascinating show. I really appreciate you coming on. We're out of time, but I really appreciate you coming on the show.


Thank you, Ken. And thank you again for having me. It's been great to be with you. And, and Allan as well. Thank you, despite the fact that you're a Pittsburgh fan. <Laugh>.


That's good, Mike. That's good, Mike. Well, again, Mike Kelly, LinkedIn, Facebook. We'll put it in the show notes. Guys, thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. Have a great rest of your week. And don't forget, as always, cashflow is king


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