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Mr. Biz Radio: How to Become Better at Authentic Self-Leadership

Unedited transcription of the show is included below:

(00:05):

Welcome to Mr. Biz radio, Biz. Talk for Biz owners. If you're ready to stop faking the funk and take your business onward and upward, this show is for you. And now here's Mr. Biz, Ken Wentworth.

(00:20):

All right, welcome to another episode of Mr. Biz Radio with me, Mr. Biz Ken Wentworth. And we are going to explore a topic that I think will be resonating to everyone who listens, at least from the demographics that we see, that everyone that, that listens and or watches. So for those of you from aren't familiar, if you're listening to this on a podcast platform or on one of our internet radio stations, and the, the show is also available on YouTube or our streaming channels, you can go to our YouTube channel, Mr. Biz, or go to mrbiznetwork.com and you can see all the different options all the different podcast options, et cetera. So you can actually watch the show as well and just listening cuz it's so much better when you see it, right? The visual or so they say. But we're gonna talk this week, our guest is Mr. Gavin Frye. He's an author and workship leader, work shop leader, not workship leader, work shop leader with 40 years of experience. And for those of you watching, you can see that Gavin must have started when he was about six or seven years old, if he

(01:18):

<Laugh>

(01:20):

As a, as a licensed spiritual therapist and leadership mentor to entrepreneurs. His new book, the "Real You Leading Your Life From Your Authentic Self" is a comprehensive work that illuminates and makes accessible the universal path of the authentic self. Gavin's called catapulted onto his career path in his teens, growing up with his brother, who was a convicted murderer and a white supremacist gang leader. I'm sure there's a lot to unpack there. He learned how to heal trauma and discovered his gift for bringing greater intimacy into our closest relationships. Gavin is an authority on the cutting edge world of authentic leadership and relational intelligence. So, as I said, whether you're a business owner, entrepreneur, corporate person, doesn't matter. We all need to live a better authentic self. And that's one of the things we're gonna talk about among many others. But, so Gavin, without further ado, welcome to Mr. Biz Radio.

(02:12):

Pleasure to be with you, Ken, and your audience.

(02:15):

Absolutely, absolutely. Well, before we start diving into any of this stuff there's, there's just so much I I as always doing show prep here, and I got pages, I'm like, oh, holy crap. How do I kind of skinny all this down. But tell us a little bit about your entrepreneurial journey, which as I said, with 40 years experience, you must have started when you were six or seven. So I'm sure there's some great stories from like kindergarten, first grade.

(02:37):

Well, I may not look like it, but I'm actually 67 years old.

(02:41):

Oh, wow. That's,

(02:42):

That's the first thing, you know. So I have, I have really good genetics and I take really good care of myself, but I, the, again, I was catapulted in the direction of psychology and spirituality because my teens were so traumatic. My sister was a heroin addict. And as you said, my brother was, he was really a pretty high level criminal and was a white supremacist gang leader. And he was involved in a lot of murdering of black people. And so I was the youngest. And so my parents and I were just decimated by all of that. They were very dark years, but I, I had to go in a direction where I could heal. So psychology, psychology really welcomes men who were willing to share in a deeper way about their internal life. And I was, cuz I was hurting. And then after psychology, and I got my master's degree, then I opened up to the whole world of spirituality. Or the way I like to frame that is it's not religion. It's more of an appreciation that within each of us is a very deep realm that's loving and compassionate and wise. And that's the realm where the authentic self lives. That's the richest gold that we have as a human being. And that's where we offer the most gifts to other people. And particularly it's the heart of an entrepreneur and their success,

(04:04):

Well, I'll say this in jest, but also being serious. Clearly living in your authentic self does well for how you don't look like you're 67 years old. So <laugh> we can, we can all, we can all learn something from from what Gavin's gonna teach us about. So you had mentioned you went into psychology. So your undergrad or your, and or your master's was in psychology,

(04:26):

Right? I got a, a bachelor's and master's in psychology, and then I got an additional master's in spiritual psychology. And it was that second program, Ken, where instead of just studying theory, it was a program where we got a chance to heal a lot of our own wounds. What makes a therapist or anybody who's a leader competent is actually self-knowledge and maturity and emotional connection. So that program really assisted me in connecting more with my depth and who I am and also more familiar with my emotional world and thus the emotional world of others.

(05:05):

Yeah, makes total sense. Makes total sense. So after, after or after and or during your education, your academia where did you go from there?

(05:16):

Well, I, I began my, my practice and I worked a lot with families and I worked a lot with individuals, and I began specializing in working with people who were in career transition. Okay. So I would often have people who were, let's say, successful doing one thing and making a lot of money and deeply, deeply unhappy because maybe they chose their career out of pleasing their parents or to make a lot of money, but it wasn't really connected to their own gifts and their own vision for themselves. So I would help people in that transition, in a discovery process, discovering more of their internal depths, their gifts, what their vision was and how they wanted to contribute to the lives of others. And then they would transition their career or they would up-level or shift their business that was more aligned with who they are. Not only would they be able to contribute more, but they'd be more fulfilled.

(06:12):

Well, and this is exactly why I wanted to have you on the show, Gavin, because I know, based on the questions that we get regularly from listeners and viewers of the show, there are a lot of people out there that are exactly what you described. They're working in a fill in the blank. Yeah. They might be an entrepreneur, but they're, they became an entrepreneur because grandpa was, and dad was, and they're not really into that. Or they're in the corporate world. Yeah. And they feel like that's the path, right? That people in the family have done that or they're an attorney or they're fill in the blank, right? They're, they're, they're living lives that aren't, frankly, they're authentic self. And so they're living almost to please other people and not living to, to be a little fulfilling life for themselves. And so I, that's why I think, you know, this is gonna be fantastic. I can't imagine the number of folks that, you know, you've been able to help through those transitions. You know, what's, what's, is there one thing that you saw over the years that was like a common theme or, or a common trait that you saw with people that were sort of stuck in that, that that limbo world?

(07:19):

Yes. And that is that like most of us, they had faced trauma early in their lives and in response to the trauma, in order to survive and protect themselves from further pain, they adopted like a, an adapted, like a false self or an adapted self, which they then mistakenly thought was who they were. But it was just an a, it was an a adaptation. So to be able to recognize that and see that is very, very powerful because you then begin to see almost like a suit of clothing that you've placed on that you've always thought was you, but it's not, it misrepresents you. So if you both start to see that, and then you also start to see and cultivate a deeper connection inside yourself with what's authentic. And so it's both, I need to dissolve and let go of the protection mechanisms that were response to trauma. And I need to get more rooted and familiar with who I am.

(08:21):

Yeah. I, I that's a version of what I, I I call faking the funk. People that are sort of you know, they're just, again, they're, they're, they're pretending to be in some ways, maybe even not in, in a nefarious way, but they're pretending to be something they're not. And maybe they don't even realize it. Maybe they don't have the self-awareness to realize That's right. That even. But that's right. So again, we've gotta hit a break here, but we're talking this week with Mr. Gavin Frye. You can find out more his website, gavinfrye.com You can follow him on Facebook on Instagram, and he also has a YouTube channel as well. Let's come back after the break. Uwe're gonna give the the Mr. Biz tip of the week and we'll continue talking with Gavin about living our authentic self

(08:58):

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(09:41):

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(10:10):

Got a question for Mr. Biz. You want answered on air, email it to This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.. Now once again, here's Mr. Biz.

(10:21):

All right, welcome back to the show. It is time with a Mr. Biz tip of the week. And I had to chuckle during the break. So, you know, I have a list of these, you know, we share them every week, as you guys know that watch and listen to the show. They're set up in December. Matter of fact, we're in the process of now in December, setting them up for for 2023. But it's it's, it's hilarious to me. And those who listen to the show know, I I say this, I think it's probably a quarter of the time that the tip of the week ends up being somehow related to the guest or the topic we're covering with the guest. I promise they're not set up that way. I don't know who the guests, when we set this up last December, I didn't know that Gavin was gonna be on the show this week.

(11:01):

But the tip this week is you don't know what you don't know. Behind every failed company is a delusional and or non self-aware leader. Now, I don't mean that, that Gavin is talking about people who are delusional, but I do, I think self-awareness is probably a lot of what, you know with Gavin, what you deal with on a regular basis. And sometimes people who are sort of stuck in this, this funk for lack of a better term. You know, is it often, what does it take, I guess, to, for someone to realize? I mean, is it usually a long process for someone to, you know, do they get feedback from people around 'em, loved ones, et cetera, and then they finally go, okay, maybe there's something here, or, or, or, you know, what do you find typically how that works?

(11:45):

Yes. Well, typically challenging circumstances start to visit a person's life. They might get feedback from their coworkers, their boss, their management, that something they're doing isn't working. It's, it's rippling trouble across the company or among their, the people that they supervise. The other way it shows up is people might get, start to get sick because physically they just can't sustain the kind of, let's say the direction and the way in which they participate as a leader in let's say a company. So, but what I'd like to see is that life actually presents us with an invitation to shift. So rather than living from outside in, the goal is to live from deep inside out. So in order to do that, we have to turn our focus to our interior life because what makes somebody who's an authentic, effective leader is they have self-knowledge, they have self-awareness, they've cultivated that.

(12:41):

And it takes, it's, it's a lifelong process really. But once you start it, the whole game changes. And so part of that can look like doing meditation. Part of that can look like journaling. Part of that can be looking like a transformational personal growth workshop. My book talks about this entire process of transformation, of making this shift and provides exercises laced throughout that will help someone start to become more rooted with experience of, oh, this is who I am. The beauty of, once you start to get in touch with it in a deeper way, it's self-reinforcing because you say to yourself, this feels good. This is who I am. And what's really kind of cool, Ken, is that everybody is unique. There isn't one way to do this. It's not a mental process, it's a discovery process. So when you see yo-yo ma play the cello, you know that it's yo-yo ma, there's never been anyone like him before or there won't be anyone after. Same with let's say gosh, Paul McCartney, his voice, John Lennon. In other words, it's unique. We actually are here on the planet to discover how we're unique, what we have going and, and how that's different from others, and how we wanna share that with others. It's the best game in town. And I call it the hero's journey because typically we have to overcome some difficulties in order to connect with it and then start building from there.

(14:16):

Gotcha. So does it sometimes, man, I'm just curious. As you were talking, I was kind of thinking this through with, with some examples that, that I know of that people may be kind of stuck in this, this, this realm at current time. Is, does it, do you see that it sometimes manifests itself over time, that when someone's living an inauthentic self or non-authentic Right. I'm not sure know which way the right term is. Yeah. Does it become at some point for them just tiring? Like, is it like running in quicksand like, man, I'm busting my butt and I'm just not good at this, or I'm just getting sick of it, or I'm burn out so easily and maybe I'm, I'm not even working a ton of hours, but I'm still burn out. Is does, does it manifest itself that way? Sometimes,

(14:58):

Yes, it very much does because they're leading their life from some unconscious pattern that's kind of like a mental pattern. And so, and if they're having a challenge at work with other people in relationship, most likely they're having problems in their marriage. They're having problems with their kids. So when you start to turn inward, thank God, there's a thing called inner guidance and intuition. It's a small still voice. I'll give you an example of how it shows up in a marriage. I do marriage counseling all the time. I have, let's say people come to me and have been married for 20 years, they're having challenges. And I start to get to know each of them. And I might talk to the wife and the wife goes, you know what, the day I was gonna get married, something inside me said, this is not my guy.

(15:47):

This is not who I should marry. But I didn't want to call it off. I didn't want to embarrass everybody. I didn't, everybody would be upset. But they betrayed themselves by continuing on. So the process of self betrayal, which is usually unconscious. So we're actually, we really think that we're someone else. So it does need to almost break down, like you're talking about, it looks many number of ways before we can actually go, oh, there's somebody in here and I like them and they are very different than I thought. And then your life starts shifting and moving in new directions.

(16:25):

I can only imagine the epiphany that that ends up being when someone, and I'm sure it's gotta be super rewarding for you when you lead someone to that epiphany. Yes,

(16:33):

It is. And usually when they come to me, it's because that voice is starting to talk to them and saying, something is off here. I need to, I need to approach myself and my life differently. And it's not easy to see. So I get to be a partner and hold a container for a process of discovery. And it can take courage. It could be scary cuz it could be emotional and tumultuous, but the intention is the discovery of who we are and let that place lead it's capable of leading.

(17:06):

Yeah. And I definitely wanna talk during the next segment about, you know, authentic self-leadership because I, I think that's an important thing. And especially with entrepreneurs, business owners that watch and listen to the show, that'll be an important topic, topic for them. As you mentioned, you gotta be able to, you know, with any task, let alone authenticity with yourself, you have to be you gotta be able to be good at it yourself before you can lead Right. Someone else through it. So I i, I wanna definitely cover that in the next segment, but Okay. Before we get into that, what are some ways of someone that's listening or watching right now that says, oh my gosh, I gotta talk to this guy. What are some ways that people can get in touch with you and, and that you help people Now is it primarily through your practice?

(17:46):

Yeah, I do one-on-one, but I also do some group work. And now, now I have the book which I just finished. So they can visit my website at gavinfrye.com, G a v i n f r y e.com. And they can reach out and I'd be glad to dialogue with them. The book is available on Amazon. You can write Gavin Frye, "The Real You", you'll see that it's there and it's a comprehensive book and it's a hands-on book laced throughout. It is what I call invitations for discovery, cuz again, this is a discovery process. It's like standing by a stream and panning for gold. And it's unique to each person. So the book actually supports someone and actually walking through this process of coming awake to who you are and doing any related healing work that may need to be done.

(18:37):

Awesome. So again, guys, go out to gavinfrye.com also follow him on Facebook and Instagram and check out his YouTube channel. You've got several videos out there that you can check out to learn more about how he helps and all sorts of different little practical tips that you can use and utilize in, in, in your everyday life to live more an authentic self. So we're gonna come back, we're gonna hit a break here. We'll come back. Gavin's gonna tell help us, as I mentioned, walk give us some tips on how to be have authentic self leadership.

(19:10):

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(19:40):

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(20:11):

Check out all three of Mr. Business best-selling books at mrbizbooks.com. Now, once again, here's Mr. Biz.

(20:21):

All right, welcome back to the show. And it is I think a lot of people look forward to the, the third segment of the show because that's primarily when Mr. Biz shuts his mouth and our guest provides their expertise. But in all seriousness, I wanna talk a little bit about this because again, as I mentioned, I think it's very important. And this is why I think this is gonna resonate really well with, with viewers and listeners of the show. Because almost all of us as adults are a leader in some form. You might, you might be managing folks in a corporate job. You might be an entrepreneur that has a team business owner that has a team. You might be the matriarch or patriarch of your, your, your family, which is a leadership role. A lot of people don't even, I think, look at it that way, but it is, you know, your children are looking up to you and look looking for leadership from you. And so you know, learning how to be a more authentic have more authentic self-leadership, I think is extremely important. So Gavin, if you would give us some of your top, you know, I don't know, four or five tips whatever we can cover during the, the remaining show on how we can be better at

(21:26):

That. Well, I wanna focus primarily on one quality. Okay. And that is vulnerability most. Okay? Most leaders, most people in particular, most men somehow are operating under the myth that the goal is to be invulnerable. To not share a weakness, to not share your humanity. Nothing could get in the way and sabotage your leadership more powerfully than that vulnerability is, has been greatly misunderstood. It's actually your access to your depth and your power. Let's say for example, a business leader starts a whole new company project in a certain direction and it ends up not being successful. It, it tanks. So imagine that leader coming, having a meeting with the whole company, standing in front and saying, I need to acknowledge something. I made an error. I didn't see clearly. I thought I did, I went with best intentions, but I was blind and I didn't see this aspect I'm learning.

(22:28):

So here's what I'm saying we need to do to course correct and now go in this direction. And I'm just letting you know, part of working at this company is we can't always see clearly all the time. We can come to each other and say, I I made a mistake, I made an error. I need, I need your assistance. So the, the key, the term that has always been very empowering for me, Ken, is, is operating from power with versus power over. So power with, and this includes with your wife, with your children, with your husband, with your coworker, with your boss. You come to them and you're a student. You're not looking to pre pretend you're perfect. Perfect. Cuz we're not. So the best leader is gonna be the best student in the company and they'll create a safe space for everybody to get closer as we all learn together.

(23:27):

So I, I would assume a big part of that is, is learning how to, I mean, especially as a leader, oftentimes I think, you know, people look at it, especially males as you mentioned, of being that strong alpha figure and, and aggressive and ambitious, et cetera. Right. But is a big part of that being learning when to, you know, frankly, shut your mouth and listen.

(23:49):

Well, a big part of what's involved in doing what I'm speaking about is, is, is particularly for men, is becoming more familiar with our emotions because they're scary, they're deep. They often don't make sense. They often feel like they get in the way, we'd like to get rid of them. So if you begin to have an emotional reaction, let's say as a leader at work to some project going south or something that one of your employees did, rather than going after them outwardly, you sit down and start to write about your upset and you start to realize things about your inner world, it's like, wow, I'm really trying to control this. Or Wow, I'm really judging this person. Or Wow. You know, I think, I think rather than just being irritated, I think I, I need to recognize this person might need my help. So you begin to actually explore your inner world rather than try to pretend like you have it all together and have all the answers.

(24:47):

You might even go to the person and say, look, I know this thing happened in our division and I'm just wanting to talk with you and I'm wanting to make a space where I can inquire about what's this been like for you? What might you need? What might you be learning? So you are, you are in a way, the, the emotions are more like the feminine side of us. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, we all have masculine and feminine inside of us. It's not gender-based. It's, it's part of being human. So if a leader goes to the person there're supervising and they, they, they inquire and they make a safe space that per you're gonna make, you're gonna establish a bond for the long term because you're not climbing all over the guy.

(25:32):

Yeah. So let me ask you this. So, you know, in my corporate career I've experienced this, you know, I I was, I started, you know, managing people and being a leader very early in my career. Yeah. And I learned through the school of hard knocks some of this stuff, and I'm sure I still have a long way to go, but one thing that a, a phrase that I would use that seemed to really help with this is when sitting down with a person as the, in the example or the anecdote you've mentioned is literally looking at the person, especially if they're a subordinate and saying, I need your help.

(26:02):

See, that is just so beautiful. You're saying we are in this together. That's why I was saying not it's power with not power over. So you're not gonna, you're not gonna use the power dynamic and pull the Trump card on them. And so, and, and, but here's the thing though, Ken, you actually, and you probably discovered this, you have to mean that you can't just say it mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, if you mean it, they will know that you mean it. And then the, and then the two of you can enter into a collaboration. And and imagine if you start having those conversations as a leader or a manager all day with your boss, with your fellow people at the same level you are, or down below the things you'd learn, the, the bonds that you would create, the kind of creativity that might come out of conversations.

(26:50):

So vulnerability means we're open with each other, we're safe, we can be transparent with each other. You know, the person might say, look, I have a son, he's a drug addict and he's been in rehab and he's tearing up the house and I'm bringing it to work and I need help and, and maybe you can help me. And, and that's what happens with employees. They have personal lives and they come into the business. So it's, it's a false dichotomy to say, well no, you keep business with business and you keep personal with personal. It's never like that. That isn't how life works.

(27:27):

Yeah. And I had a situation not to get too deep into the weeds with it of course won't mention any names, but I had a person who was working for me that all of a sudden their, they had been always been a top performer. Their performance went into the crapper. Yeah. Sat down and, and talked with, with him about it. And here I come to find out that not only he was beginning to go through a divorce and then on top of that, one of his children was having some pretty challenging health problems. And yes, the child was very young and so that was all piling up on this poor guy. Right. And it was manifesting itself at work. Right. Because he's not focused at work. Of course. Who would be, right? That's right. And so having that conversation and, and frankly what I found was I was on the other end of it, I'm trying to help this person.

(28:10):

Right. And he was reluctant to be vulnerable, right. I i, he, he worked for me. He, he, he was a subordinate. And so I think he was reluctant to show, you know, I, it's not the right term, but weakness or, you know, that vulnerability of, to tell my boss. And I said, gosh, now that I know that, like, let's figure this out. Let's, you know, let's, let's figure out ways that we can, how I can help you better cope with this. Let's let, let's lessen your workload at least temporarily and help you get through this.

(28:36):

That's right. So then that courageous conversation, cuz it's about courageous conversations and they are scary, they take risks, but then you take challenges that occur and you actually, they, they're, they're used to strengthen the relationship. That's how you get closer and more bonded with someone that you're working with above, same level or below you. It's all about authentic c courageous conversations. And if you all have accompanying culture that says, look, we want to be more authentic with each other and we're gonna risk doing that and we'll learn how to do this as we go along, that would be a powerful leader.

(29:16):

Absolutely. I agree a hundred percent. Guys, go out and check out gavinfrye.com. Follow him on Facebook, Instagram, and his YouTube channel. Gavin, thanks so much for coming on Mr. Biz Radio.

(29:27):

Pleasure to be with you, Ken. Take care.

(29:28):

Yeah, absolutely guys. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. Have a fantastic weekend. As always, don't forget cashflow is king

(29:40):

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